Restoring the Apostle's Doctrine

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Amen. A sad state of affairs for the "institutional church".

I come from the house church side of the tracks. We don't believe that buildings, "sermons", pews, programs, salaries, offices, or positions are NT requirements. We meet in homes, coffee houses, parks, and other venues. We have "elders" who are spiritual mentors, or spiritual fathers, not suited and licensed religious agents of the state with ecclesiastical authority. The the church gatherings are more like family renunions. Gives a whole new meaning to being "brothers and sisters" in the LORD.

It breaks my heart how the Apostolic movement stopped following God upon getting licensed and incorporated.

Well, it seems to me that since the tenets that the movement were instituted by, basically, attrition, they can be un-instituted the same way (An ordained minister needn't publicly deny it--just stop teaching it!). I was raised to believe in the glossololia experience, also, as the sign of the Holy Spirit--I had one, myself--but an important point, too, is that this does not mean that the HS just automatically stays with you forever...just ask Moses!

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What if the minister said some traditional formula, yet the individual was crying out to God in the name of Jesus in their heart?

Or, what if they did not know the Name, "Jesus," and instead referred to Christ by one of His--many--other Names?

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by bishoph

What is the initial evidence? Is it tongues/glossolalia ........or something else? At what point does one receive the spirit baptism (or is it automatic upon believing) and what is the universal sign/manifestation that EVERY believer will experience as assurance of said baptism?

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Even in the AG we believe the initial evidence is tongues.

It is not upon believing but upon faith asking for the Promise of the Father.

However it is not to be confused with the indwelling Spirit that one gets at believing.

Just to be clear......the AG and many other Pentecostal based groups teach that Holy Ghost baptism is distinct from and subsequent to salvation. Which is why nearly all of those groups believe that one is saved regardless of whether or not they EVER receive the spirit baptism or not. It is according to their teaching, something EVERY believer should seek for (to receive power) but not something they MUST have to be saved.

Also it is true that most Pentecostal based groups teach that speaking with tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

My question is......is there any other (initial) sign that one has received the Spirit? Or more directly, is speaking with tongues the ONLY biblical and universal (initial) sign or manifestation of one receiving the Holy Ghost?

And secondly, is there any biblical evidence that one can receive an indwelling presence/spirit separate/distinct from being baptized with the Holy Ghost?

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

What's a matter.....You skeered?......

[houston]

I accept prophecy... that was the initial evidence in the O.T.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by bishoph

What's a matter.....You skeered?......

Ha! No, I'm going with 'ignorant, and curious.'

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Ha! No, I'm going with 'ignorant, and curious.'

LOL

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Just to be clear......the AG and many other Pentecostal based groups teach that Holy Ghost baptism is distinct from and subsequent to salvation. Which is why nearly all of those groups believe that one is saved regardless of whether or not they EVER receive the spirit baptism or not. It is according to their teaching, something EVERY believer should seek for (to receive power) but not something they MUST have to be saved.

Also it is true that most Pentecostal based groups teach that speaking with tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

My question is......is there any other (initial) sign that one has received the Spirit? Or more directly, is speaking with tongues the ONLY biblical and universal (initial) sign or manifestation of one receiving the Holy Ghost?

And secondly, is there any biblical evidence that one can receive an indwelling presence/spirit separate/distinct from being baptized with the Holy Ghost?

Bump

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Just to be clear......the AG and many other Pentecostal based groups teach that Holy Ghost baptism is distinct from and subsequent to salvation. Which is why nearly all of those groups believe that one is saved regardless of whether or not they EVER receive the spirit baptism or not. It is according to their teaching, something EVERY believer should seek for (to receive power) but not something they MUST have to be saved.

Also it is true that most Pentecostal based groups teach that speaking with tongues as the Spirit gives utterance is the initial evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.

My question is......is there any other (initial) sign that one has received the Spirit? Or more directly, is speaking with tongues the ONLY biblical and universal (initial) sign or manifestation of one receiving the Holy Ghost?

And secondly, is there any biblical evidence that one can receive an indwelling presence/spirit separate/distinct from being baptized with the Holy Ghost?

#1 - Yes. Tongues is the only biblical evidence given for Holy Spirit baptism.

#2 - Ephesians 1:13