The Security of the Believer

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Jesus Christ gives us understanding about those who do not bear fruit.

6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon , and found none.7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold , these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down ; why cumbereth it the ground?8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down . Luke 13:6-8

Jesus gives time for one to bear fruit. If it does not happen by then HE CUTS IT DOWN.

Does not seem to hard to understand.

He gives a believer the Holy Ghost. He gives them grace. He expects them to bear fruit. If they dont he sets forth clear warnings of their destruction.

How much fruit must a tree bear in order for it not to be cut down?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

MTD,
I'd be curious as to what you think about the whole of Matthew 25?

When taken as a whole there can be no question that eternal security is a false teaching.

The guy who buried his talents gets cast into outer darkness. The five foolish virgins are shut out of Heaven. Those who dont minister to the needy are cast away to everlasting punishment. Theres nothing for eternal security in the chapter.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

MTD,
I'd be curious as to what you think about the whole of Matthew 25?

What do you think about this:

6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon , and found none.7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold , these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down ; why cumbereth it the ground?8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down . Luke 13:6-8

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

When taken as a whole there can be no question that eternal security is a false teaching.

The guy who buried his talents gets cast into outer darkness. The five foolish virgins are shut out of Heaven. Those who dont minister to the needy are cast away to everlasting punishment. Theres nothing for eternal security in the chapter.

In each case, the talent guy, the foolish virgins, the failed minister are in the kingdom of heaven. "The kingdom of heaven is like".....

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by seekerman

In each case, the talent guy, the foolish virgins, the failed minister are in the kingdom of heaven. "The kingdom of heaven is like".....

Ok the outer darkness he gets thrown into is in the kingdom? The virgins shut out of the kingdom are in the kingdom? The people sent away to everlasting punishment are in the kingdom?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok the outer darkness he gets thrown into is in the kingdom? The virgins shut out of the kingdom are in the kingdom? The people sent away to everlasting punishment are in the kingdom?

Yes, read the chapter again. Notice the term "the kingdom of heaven is like". For instance, the virgins were not shut out of the kingdom, no scripture suggests such a thing.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

What do you think about this:

6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon , and found none.7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold , these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down ; why cumbereth it the ground?8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down . Luke 13:6-8

The same as I do about Matthew 25. We have things to do for the Kingdom which entails more than repentance, baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Someone posted that losing faith can cause you to lose your salvation. So, I think losing your faith can cause you to stop working for the Kingdom, thus causing you to lose your salvation. You become unprofitable.

But, also, the parable of the Fig Tree shows that, even in times when we have become unproductive, He doesn't just cast us aside on a whim. He is patient.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by seekerman

How much fruit must a tree bear in order for it not to be cut down?

Jesus said STRIVE TO ENTER at the strait gate.

Give yourself ENTIRELY to him and you will make it.

23Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved ? And he said unto them,24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in , and shall not be able .25When once the master of the house is risen up , and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying , Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are :26Then shall ye begin to say , We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.27But he shall say , I tell you, I know you not whence ye are ; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. Luke 13:23-27

One should be careful not to think in terms of well how much can I barely do, how much little fruit can I bear and still be accepted?

Jesus said STRIVE! He said FORSAKE ALL!

How far will you let me go? How abandoned will you let me be?

Would you elaborate for a moment what YOU think Jesus meant by the parable of the tree being CUT DOWN? Thanks!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

The same as I do about Matthew 25. We have things to do for the Kingdom which entails more than repentance, baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Someone posted that losing faith can cause you to lose your salvation. So, I think losing your faith can cause you to stop working for the Kingdom, thus causing you to lose your salvation. You become unprofitable.

But, also, the parable of the Fig Tree shows that, even in times when we have become unproductive, He doesn't just cast us aside on a whim. He is patient.

Seems quite reasonable

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Ok the outer darkness he gets thrown into is in the kingdom? The virgins shut out of the kingdom are in the kingdom? The people sent away to everlasting punishment are in the kingdom?

If the scripture is accurate in stating the "kingdom of heaven is like", then yes that's all part of the kingdom of heaven.