Maybe I'm Too Harsh

[Whole Hearted]

NI I have never read a post where you ehre too harsh.

Originally Posted by Forgiven

What is a pastor supposed to do with a short haired woman who wants to participate in the choir? Wait two or three years on their hair to grow out to their waistline? Make them wear fake hair so that no one sees their hair doesn't meet the guidelines? Refuse to let them sing or participate in services? I suppose some would do those things. Thank God that my pastor isn't like that. As long as the person has come to repentance, and they are attempting to live right, they are allowed to sing in the choir at our church. I'm sure you don't approve, so you don't even have to reply to tell me how wrong that is in your eyes.

I agree. I like what Bro Hoffman said when someone trashed his church over standards:"They're not Chia Pets. You don't just add water and it grows overnight!".
Lest anyone here misunderstand me, yes I do firmly believe in standards.
I also firmly believe in getting the fish in before you clean them.

Our church does not berate folks for not being in standards. We do try to teach them so that they can understand what it is that we believe. I see no problem with that at all.

We are discussing these things here on this forum because the subject keeps getting broached.

Many opinions abound regarding this, but I also believe in following the pastor since one church can have a different belief than another in this regards.

My beliefs are the same regardless of where I go.

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

NI I have never read a post where you ehre too harsh.

Thanks, my friend.
Sometimes I feel that I am and want to see how people react to things.
I guess some of them don't like how I think.
Life goes on...

[tv1a]

This post is so easy to debunk even a caveman can do it. I'll make it a little tougher and use the Bible to debunk this junk:

Since I still believe that ONLY one God believers will go to heaven (again it sure comes out of the Bible that way), then I am a little too harsh against those who propagate something else as true.

The He referenced in the only scripture used by oneness purist does not deal with being a "oneness" believer, but in believing God is the Messiah.

I do not believe that we should preach in other denominations nor allow them into our pulpits to preach. That IMO is inviting major trouble and is obviously already spreading mass confusion among what used to be the ranks of apostolics.

I can't believe you are so spiritually weak you can't minister in another denomination. The apostles went to the temple and preached. Did you ever think the temple the apostles preached in was NOT friendly to christians? Paul delivered the ultimate sermon on Mars Hill, the shrine known for Pagan worship.

Which one of you can truly say that you live a more godly or holy life now that you have been "liberated"?
Which one of you lives closer to God than ever before since your new found freedom?

The Bible says where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Since I gave up the false doctrine of legalism. I gave up legalism without compromising one biblical prinicple. My daughter and my wife still look like ladies. Our family practices modesty. We believe in Acts 2:38. We are Oneness in theology, until it becomes the hidden element of acts 2:38.

To answer your question. Shedding legalism has forced me to become closer to God since I can't hide behind a clothesline. It's easier to hide issues of the heart behind a dress code and man made rules. When one lives by Biblical principle, they are inviting themselves to be an open book.

Just a thought to consider: if you maintain the same distance from the world that you always have, somewhere along the line you will accept things that you used to once shun for the world is continually moving further from God. The mentality of maintaining the same distance also means that you are moving further from God.

What you propose is isolation not separation. The Bible says the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church. Unless I'm wrong, gates are not an offensive weapon. Gates are to keep something out. Satan knows if the Church comes up against Hell, the gates have to open.

What you propose is to move the church so far away from the gates of hell that it would be impossible for the Church of God to grow. The only thing you get with your proposition is an aryan nation of christians.

This is my own point of view. You may feel free to trash it if you wish, but it doesn't change the truth being presented

Did I miss something? Where was the truth in your post? Maybe the King James translation is above your level. I am reminded of Paul's words to the Galations (gal 5:1-10)
Christ has set us free to live a free life. So take your stand! Never again let anyone put a harness of slavery on you.

I am emphatic about this. The moment any one of you submits to circumcision or any other rule-keeping system at that same moment Christ's hard-won gift of freedom is squandered. I repeat my warning! The person who accepts the ways of circumcision trades all the advantages of the free life in Christ for the obligations of the slave life of the law.

I suspect you would never intend this, but this is what happens. When you attempt to live by your own religious plans and projects, you are cut off from Christ, you fall out of Grace... For in Christ, neither conscientious religion nor disregard of religion amounts to anything.

You were running superbly! Who cut in on you, deflecting you from the true course ofobedience? This detour doesn't come from the One who called you into the race in the first place. And please don't toss this off as insignificant. It only takes a minue amount of yeast .. to permeate an enire loaf of bread. Deep down, the Master has given me confidence that you will not deflect. But the one who is upsetting you, whoever he is, will bear the divine judgement.

Originally Posted by NobodyImportant

I guess since I still believe that holiness is essential (and biblical), then I am a little too harsh towards those who see it otherwise.
Since I still believe that ONLY one God believers will go to heaven (again it sure comes out of the Bible that way), then I am a little too harsh against those who propagate something else as true.
I do not believe that we should preach in other denominations nor allow them into our pulpits to preach. That IMO is inviting major trouble and is obviously already spreading mass confusion among what used to be the ranks of apostolics.

I am saddened by many posts here that spurn the old ways for what is being called modern outreach.

We can thank many of our fine leaders(?) for these things.

Church, you may want to reconsider your doings. You may not like the conservative voice for it is a voice that does not allow all the worldly vices that those who have been "set free" allow.

Which one of you can truly say that you live a more godly or holy life now that you have been "liberated"?
Which one of you lives closer to God than ever before since your new found freedom?

Just a thought to consider: if you maintain the same distance from the world that you always have, somewhere along the line you will accept things that you used to once shun for the world is continually moving further from God. The mentality of maintaining the same distance also means that you are moving further from God.

This is my own point of view. You may feel free to trash it if you wish, but it doesn't change the truth being presented.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Your right, the standards are for EVERYONE.

Hogwash! What standards? The ones people have made up on their own? I don't think so, WH. The dress code keepers don't have a monopoly on God, contrary to what they may think.

[tv1a]

Anyone else notice the lack of concern for the "inward" person. Anyone can put on a skirt, let their hair grow out and still be as lost as Rosie O'Donnell at a Promise Keepers Ralley. The fatal misconcpetion is everything is okay on the inside if they look the part on the outside. The skirt and uncut hair is no proof a person heart is correct with the Lord. Would like to do some real pastoring? Or do they teach that anymore.

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Here one must be in the church six month and be living for God those six months. A woman can not be cutting her hair and be on the platform. If a woman prays through and doesn't cut her hair for six months then she could sing on the platform.

Those on the platform must be living right. No long haired men, or women who are cutting their hair, or anyone who owns a TV.

Plus our women wear their hair up on the platform. Not a sin , but looks better.

[tv1a]

Go get 'em big guy...

Originally Posted by Rico

Hogwash! What standards? The ones people have made up on their own? I don't think so, WH. The dress code keepers don't have a monopoly on God, contrary to what they may think.

Originally Posted by tv1a

Anyone else notice the lack of concern for the "inward" person. Anyone can put on a skirt, let their hair grow out and still be as lost as Rosie O'Donnell at a Promise Keepers Ralley. The fatal misconcpetion is everything is okay on the inside if they look the part on the outside. The skirt and uncut hair is no proof a person heart is correct with the Lord.

The worst spirits I ever fought were as such above.

Originally Posted by SomebodyImportant

Thank God for His Word. He told me how we could identify HIS STANDARDS. How do we SEE THEM IN OTHERS? SEE GALATIANS 5:22-23.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

WHEN YOU SEE THE FRIUTS, YOU SEE EVIDENCE OF A LIFE LIVED IN ACCORDANCE TO GOD'S WILL.

SomebodyiImportant,

While I agree with your post in principle, I think you have to be careful with using this as a global test. We had a family friend that was like an uncle to me. He exhibited all of the things you listed above PLUS strong discipline in personal areas that are not listed here. By your absolute measure he woujld have been living a life in accordance to God's will! Unfortunately, Tom was an agnostic at best and leaned heavily toward atheism.

What say ye about the absolute measure?

Originally Posted by NobodyImportant

I agree. I like what Bro Hoffman said when someone trashed his church over standards:"They're not Chia Pets. You don't just add water and it grows overnight!".
Lest anyone here misunderstand me, yes I do firmly believe in standards.
I also firmly believe in getting the fish in before you clean them.

Our church does not berate folks for not being in standards. We do try to teach them so that they can understand what it is that we believe. I see no problem with that at all.

We are discussing these things here on this forum because the subject keeps getting broached.

Many opinions abound regarding this, but I also believe in following the pastor since one church can have a different belief than another in this regards.

My beliefs are the same regardless of where I go.

Would that be my Michigan friend and TBC buddy, Harold Hoffman?