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  #31  
Old 01-19-2012, 12:14 AM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Re: Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
Yes but that does not mean that we, being under grace, should treat those still ignorantly under the law with...more law? Isn't this the definition of insanity?
That's why I posted another one from the New Testament.
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  #32  
Old 01-19-2012, 04:44 AM
Titus2woman Titus2woman is offline


 
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Re: Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by RandyWayne View Post
So who is to forgive them? The victims or people not involved in the crime at all? In most cases it is the "people not involved in the crime at all" who think they are capable of forgiving the perps on behalf of the victims.
In the case of childhood sexual abuse it is most often a family member or close family friend that is responsible for the abuse. While burning the person alive may sound like a good idea on the surface, because of the anger that a crime against an innocent causes, it is not really a workable solution.

These child victims can have a huge amount of guilt when the abuser is even found out, arrested, punished. In reality, something like the death of the abuser is not usually going to be satisfaction to the abused, it is more likely to be more pain, grief and guilt.

I grew up in the foster care system. There were a lot of us with abuse backgrounds and there was even abuse in the system. Over the years I have seen people change, lives and relationships healed and restored. None of that is possible after death. It is a well established fact that most abusers are the product of abuse so are we saying we would kill for them now but kill them later if they follow what appears to be a natural progression for may who are abused and become abusers themselves? It makes no sense. Instead we need to focus our limited time, energy and money helping the abused to deal with what has happened to them and avoid continuing the cycle.

If there is not hope for true rehabilitation of an abuser then those who are a danger to others should be permanently separated from polite society. I have some rather radical ideas about how to accomplish that separation in less expensive ways but I won't get into them here. I will say that medical science has a lot to offer in the way of helping with rehabilitation. Chemical and physical castration as well as certain types of brain surgeries can alter behavior and render one who was dangerous no longer dangerous but we consider that cruel. I think it's a man thing that we believe that losing testicles is a fate worse than death when really these people could probably be safely returned to society.

Most murder victims families admit that they found no closure or peace at the killer being executed. It seemed like they would but then didn't. I can only assume from this that God was right when He said to forgive our enemies. Forgiveness makes us stronger and grows us into who God wants us to be. That is not fluff, it's real stuff.
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  #33  
Old 01-19-2012, 07:20 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by Titus2woman View Post
REALLY??? It was a very conservative number. The innocence project lists 289 although not all death penalty cases. If it were even one innocent person executed, read; murdered, by the state, that is too many. Just recently a very likely innocent man was executed just up the road in Huntsville despite a huge outcry for a stay and new trial. Texas at least, has proved that a little innocence will not keep them from killing you if they legally can.

So you are aware my brother is currently facing the death penalty so I have done some research. Unfortunately I have no reason to believe that he is innocent.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/529

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Cont...onerations.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...th_row_inmates
No doubt our system needs reform.
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  #34  
Old 01-19-2012, 07:23 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by Titus2woman View Post
Because the people involved in the prosecution of these cases are also using them to build careers they are not without bias. There can be huge public pressure to bring someone, anyone in and once they have targeted a suspect it is not in their best interests to let it go easily. This can be a set up for abuse of the system.

Do not misunderstand. We are a family with deep roots in law enforcement but I believe that only God should determine a persons time of death and if we try to circumvent that in our quest for justice we have tipped the scales in a wrong direction. One can never give someone back their life once it is taken.

Stew have you read the Clarence Brandley story? Happened right here in my home town and all of the crooked DAs that were involved are now judges. Every person involved in the false prosecution of Mr. Brandley was rewarded for their work on the case, when he was exonerated not one of them lost their promotion, let alone their job, over it. There is absolutely no accountability for police officers and DAs that knowingly persecute the innocent.
That is horrible.

What if we had a system wherein if one was exhonorated after execution and crooked procedures were found in the case of the prosecution, the DA faced ten years in prison?
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  #35  
Old 01-19-2012, 10:32 AM
Titus2woman Titus2woman is offline


 
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Re: Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
That is horrible.

What if we had a system wherein if one was exhonorated after execution and crooked procedures were found in the case of the prosecution, the DA faced ten years in prison?
It is a complicated problem Aquila. The prosecutors are using evidence that they themselves did not collect oft times. They need to be effective. Even where it is the guilty being tried everything may not be just laid out neat and tidy. There are almost always some loose ends. But yes, where someone is railroaded, in this case plainly because of race, I think that there should be penalties.

In situations like this it gives me great comfort to know that all will face a just God.
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  #36  
Old 01-19-2012, 11:24 AM
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Dordrecht Dordrecht is offline
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Re: Death Penalty

Looks like our justice system is a mess.
God's justice system looks better.
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  #37  
Old 01-19-2012, 11:25 AM
deafdriscoll deafdriscoll is offline
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Re: Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
I am inclined to agree, but then I remembered the healing that is available for those who choose to forgive.

Burning them alive doesn't read right at all.
After several got burnt alive for attacking kids, do you believe this kind of crime would end or go down quickly?
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  #38  
Old 01-19-2012, 11:45 AM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: Death Penalty

Does anybody remember the time outgoing Governor Ryan commuted the sentences of all death row inmates because he was not sure how many of these people were indeed innocent of the crime they were accused and found guilty of?

The families of slain people were very upset.


I am afraid that there is no real solution to this very devastating problem until our Lord Jesus returns to rule the earth. Man sure has proven that we cannot govern our own selves.


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/12/us...ted=all&src=pm
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  #39  
Old 01-19-2012, 12:17 PM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
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Re: Death Penalty

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Originally Posted by Dordrecht View Post
That's why I posted another one from the New Testament.
Ah; you perceive no shift in premise though, from Law to Grace? We are supposed to now sacrifice, do the hard thing, except in cases where the death penalty is determined to apply, then fry 'em? They were under law, anyway? If I understand you right, ty.
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  #40  
Old 01-19-2012, 12:29 PM
aegsm76 aegsm76 is offline
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Re: Death Penalty

I am opposed to abortion and opposed to capital punishment.
With that said, I would have no problem defending my family with deadly force, if necessary.
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