The [Apostolic] Prosperity Gospel

[Titus2woman]

Whoops!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

It seems that the prosperity gospel, name it and claim it, is gaining serious traction in apostolic circles. Maybe I am just arriving late to the party, but I'm seeing and hearing some rather alarming things from fairly prominent men.

Today I was listening to a sermon online which centered on the Lord's prayer and "Finacial Dominion." One of the main points of emphasis was that when Jesus used the word "debts" he really meant "finacial debts" or finacial obligations. I am floored by such statements.

These are some of the statements that I find absolutely mind boggling (all in direct reference to Matthew 6:12) with a couple of thoughts in red.

"Everyday you should pray the Lord's prayer in regards to your money. First ins't this the passage of scripture where Jesus points out "DO NOT" use vain repetitions like the heathen"? Does anyone else see irony in this statement? Is this a Catholic church or Apostolic church? Catholics consider themselves Apostolic, so maybe its okay to borrow from their lithurgy? Second if we pray the Lord's prayer in regard to our money, are we not serving the opposite purpose? Is not the purpose of the Lord's prayer complete submission to God so that His will can be done on earth as it is in heaven? Should not our greatest desire be the complete submission of our will and desire to God? Is not this the very thing Jesus prayed for in the garden? And is this not the single greatest human struggle, to completely get our own will, desire, and ambition out of the way and seek to serve God completely and wholly? And even if such prayer was said with good intentions, does not praying in regard to ones personal finances and "financial dominion" make the prayer ABOUT US, about our ultimate desires and ambitions? The whole point of praying such a prayer is so that one might have financial abundance. God will bless, no one is arguing that point, but the question is should we actively seek the blessing or just obey God and allow Him to bless us in His time and ways? If we make it a point to pray every single day the Lord's prayer in regards to OUR MONEY are not we feeding selfish ambition? Should we pray everyday that our financial debt be forgiven as we forgive people who owe us money? or should we pray everyday that if we have committed any sin (using the interpretation most regurly accepted) it be forgiven us, as we forgive every sin which has been committed against us? Should we not be praying that we would love others the way Christ loves them, that we judge others not, but see them as God sees them, thorugh his eyes. Should we not pray that God reveal in us secret faults? Should we not pray that God reveal in us bitterness, jealousy, pride, bad attitudes, or any of the sins of the spirit? There are so many other things to pray for, and I'm not against praying that God help us to be good stewards of his blessings, or help us to have our eyes open to the needs of other people so that we may finanically bless them. But when we make a point everyday to pray for our own finances, are we not making money priority no.1? Could it not be argued that ones financial peace is actually MORE important to them that their relationship with God, but they go to God in prayer because they believe He is the means to their ultimate end (money)?

Matthew used this [The Lord's prayer, Matt 6:12] as the centerpiece of Christ's teaching on money. Most of the time we spiritualize the debts. We think of the debt in terms of sin. Matthew says debts-why did he say debts? He meant debt. He wanted you to understand so we could pray everyday "Lord, forgive me my debts."I have yet to find any Bible commentator who accepts this position, and I quoted several and some Bible Dictionaries also. But all is not lost, I did find one prospserity gospel blogger who endorsed such an interpretation. Come on, if we (Apostolics) are supposed to be the formost representatives of Bible truth on the earth we've got to do better than this.

"our being forgiven of debt is wrapped up in forgiving others of debt. This is a matter of forgiving people who owe you money, actual money. Where is this stuff coming from? It a matter of forgiveness, period. Forgiving monetary debt would only be one of a myriad of offences, it is certainly not the main emphasis of the passage. You would think that Jesus explaination of v.12 in v.14-15 would clearly illustrate that. I don't just forgive people who owe me money, I forgive people who lie about me, who have formed incorrect opinoins about me, people who have phyiscally, mentally, emotionally hurt me. People who would consider me their enemies, people who abused my family members. I forgive every offence because God has forgiven me every offence.


I'm wondering how many in this place tense up everytime there a special offering is recieved? Its not that you don't want to do it, its that for many, many, many Christians after the bills are paid, the groceries are bought, they pay their tithes AND their regular commitment offering there's nothing left. [I'd like to see the day that you'd be able ] to give $1,000 without blinking."Of course there's nothing left after they give their tithes, then another offering-because it is taught that a man robs God in tithes AND offerings, and so 10% isn't enough, THEN giving tithes and regular offerings ins't enough, because when there's a special offering they should be expected to give even more! Of course those in favor of prosperity gospel want people to give $1,000 without blinking. Such is the religious ponzi scheme.

So when we are praying over our money we must understand its about being tested and whoopin' the devil at his own game. It's about victory. Its about dominion.No we know this is pentecostal prosperity gospel becuase we are whoopin' the devil. Good grief, if we want to "whoop the devil" then live a Christ like life. Steve Jobs just died having not known the Lord, but he sure whooped that old devil. With all those millionaires whoopin the devil, theres hardly any whoopin left to go around, that is unless whoopin the devil has litte to nothing to do with our checkbook. PS-do we even need to worry about the devil? Is he not defeated? Why do pentecostals spend some much time on the devil? Does the devil have any real control? Can he make us do a single thing? Do we think the devil is soverign? The prosperity gospel is the only thing I hate worse than the power the pentecostals ascribe to the devil.

God's greatest adversary is money."I can't believe it. This isn't stuff taught in the backwoods in a church with 3 barefoot saints, this isn't stuff being taught on TBN, this is being taught in a prominent aposotolic church that quite frankly ought to know better.


"When Jacob told Joseph to go check on his brothers, he wasn't just going down to spy on them and bring an evil report. No the evil report he brought was an Excel spreadsheet. It was accounting! Jospehwas the stweard of the house and brought back an account to his father of his brothers financial malfeasance. Wasting resources. Jospeh was an accountant."This is the problem with the prosperity gospel, it views everything through the eyes of money. Money, money money, money. Thats why someone is willing to disregard the plain and accepted meaning of debts in the Lord's prayer and substitute the 21st century English meaning rather than the 1st century Aramaic meaning. Its like some prosperity preachers who teach Jesus was rich because Judas held the money bag.

God wants us to be blessed. God wants your family to be blessed. I'm going to preach it again, and again, and again. And no matter how much I have to beat my head against that old prosperity gospel. I'll just tell you right now that the prosperity gospel is a smoke screen that the devil has thrown up to keep us from SEEKING what RIGHTFULLY BELONGS TO US. He has decieved us into believing that you either have to preach prosperity gospel or poverty gospel. One or the other. And I'm telling you they are both wrong and right in the middle is BLESSING GOSPEL. Its called SEED of ABRAHAM GOSPEL." I've seen TBN preachers use this same tactic. They seek to redefine their message and make sure everyone is clear it is not prospertiy gospel. It is not name it and claim it. Then they go on to preach those very same things just under a new term. Politicians use the same tactic. Few will say I'm a communist, now its a socialist. That term is getting a black mark and now its the "99%". Changing the label doesn't change the content and emphasis on the teaching. If no one else is willing to call it what it is this is PROSPERITY GOSPEL. Think about which biblical character more than any others do prosperity preachers use to justify their lavish lifestyles? Is it not ABRAHAM? Why do all these preachers for get to mention that Abraham wasn't a preacher? King David wasn't a preacher. Job wans't a preacher.

What kind of lifestyle did SAMUEL live? What about ELIJAH? ELISHA? ISAIAH, JEREMIAH? AMOS? HOSEA? JOHN the BAPTIST? PETER? JOHN? JAMES? PAUL? WHAT BIBLICAL PREACHER EVER LIVED A LIFE OF FINACIAL LUXUARY ON THE EARTH? These preachers had homes, the had transportation, they had food, wives, children. They lived a life that was the life of an average person, they had their needs met and didn't normally have to worry about where the next meal was coming from-but none lived lavishly, most ended up at some point paying the ultimate price for their faith in God, and not a one of them lived head and shoulders above the average person of their day.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by NorCal

Massive debt? A church will seat 100 people will cost about $700K or more. That includes parking lot and everything. It is not cheap to build a church from scratch. However; good luck having consistent "gathering of the saints" in your own house. There are zoning laws about that (as we have seen as of late).

I think most churches would have a problem building a church from the ground up for only 700K. And reality shows us that churches often spare few expenses when it comes to building a church.

Originally Posted by NorCal

However, it is kinda funny, you non-tithers sound just like the OWS crowd. Take take take, but never understand what a fair share really is. Every, Non-Tither church I have seen here in my city, has shut down in these hard time. The Tithers, doors are open, handing out charity to the others.

You completely misunderstand non tithers position, and seek to black label them as non-givers. I'm a "non-tither". Doesn't mean I don't give. I give all the time. Do you give to people in need? Christmas is a tough time of year for low income people, especially in this economy, did you help anyone out with a significant gift? I'm not talking about dropping a dollar in the salvation army bucket, though I believe God blesses all giving, even that. Children are starving in the world, do you care? Do you do anything to help, or just wait until your church gives? Christians are persucted all over the world do you help them out with finacnes? Do you suppport missions (not just your church-do you?) Please don't feel obligated to answer those questions, I don't plan to either. The point is that non-tithers are not necessarily non-givers. And if they are non tithers only or primarily so they can keep more of their money, then God already knows their motives, nd we are warned in Ephesians that greedy/covetous person can inherit the Kingdom of God. Greed has nothing to do with %. A tither can be greedy. They can (and many do) give out of fear, not faith. Tithing turns into legalism and works0righteousness. It destroys 1 Peter 1:18-19 and does in effect say you are redeemed by corruptible things like silver and gold.

Originally Posted by NorCal

From a business standpoint, the strategy works.

Now that is solid reasoning. Hard to argue with that. The ends justifies the means. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well, case closed.

Originally Posted by NorCal

The basic biblical principle of tithes and offerings works.

And people say the same thing about uncut hair. People say the same thing about wearing a bulb of garlic around their neck warding off evil spirits. Furthermore tithing DOESN'T always work, in fact it rarely works the way it is taught. is not it taught that the tither ought to have a blessing that "you cannot contain"? Is it not suppossed to be pressed down-shaken together and running over? Do you not plant one seed and get an abundant harvest from that one seed? Isn't the "LAW" of sowing and reaping presented that the harvest ALWAYS produces more than what was planted? Then why do many tithers struggle? Why do they have to watch their buget when they buy groceries? if they tithe shouldn't they be so blessed that even something so basic as filling the pantry with groceries should be done without a second thought? Why did tithers in a Texas aposotlic church live without elictricity for at least a couple of months because they choose to pay their tithes instead? Why did an employee of mine who paid tithes faithfully (when he couldn't really afford to) lose his house and end up living in someones backyard in an old unused travel trailer with a family, only to later lose his family becuase his wife got fed up with living like that? Do those people all say it works? You know what, most of them do, because they are scared to death of hell. But the thing is God didn't break his word, men took scriptures out of context, and the end result is that instead of building up peoples faith, many (not all) have had their faith shaken, and certainly some have abandoned it alltogether. The world thinks the church is only out for their money, and when they here such things as have been mentioned on this thread as a first time visitor to AN APOSTOLIC CHURCH (come on, were not talking about Creflo Dollar here) who could blame them?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

"Is the Bible our final authority for ALL church doctrine and practice?"

becomes too general a Q, I think, due to interpretation?

I believe it is a very vital question. If the Bible is NOT the final authority, then churches can condone anything that "works" which has become the way most American churches have church. As such we have Super Bowl parties in the church. Give away ipods, TV's, even cars at Easter service (you know-so the sinner is enticed to come, its all about evangelism),etc.

[Jason B]

Who said it is not important. What is important is this is being taught in "Bible believing" churches and it is a shame. This is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. This is prosperity gospel no matter how much one tries to deny it.

"You gotta put your tithe first. now this is not just me trying to get your money, its God trying to get your money. Because if God can get your money he's got your life. If he can get your money he has your heart. Where your treasure is so will your heart follow. Just like Elijah and the widow. I'm gonna tell you there would have been alot of folks offended by the Elijah ministries incorporated. Because he dared tell a little widow woman who was as poor as she could be, and was about to die, last meal before her and her son die. And that preacher. That money grubbin, money hungry preacher, looked at her and said feed me first. But Elijah understood something powerful, if he could get her to feed him, God was obligated to her. If he could get her to feed him, they were going to ocme into a partnership here. Because Jesus said however you receive the ones I send is how you recieve me. You give to a prophet a cup of cold water, you get a prophets reward. So Elijah knows God's gonna take are of him, because he's God's man. So he's saying to the little widow, give it to me first....

Brothers and sisters look at me. I'm the man of God in your life. The tithe that you pay is what I eat my bread from. My family and I survive. And so when you tithe you're entering into partnership, not just with me, but your entering into partnership with God. When you bring your tithe you're entering into an agreement....When you bring your tithe you're entering into a communication with me. Into a partnership with me as your pastor. And what happens is God's going to take care of me. He called me to this place. He put me here and he's going to pay my bills, He's always done it, God's been good to me. But here's what happens when you take a pledge to enter into partnership with God by tithing for the support of the ministry that feeds you spiritual bread. Paul said if we have sown to you spiritual things, is it any great thing that we reap your carnal? i like the way he said that without stuttering. He didn't even blink. He wasn't the least bit embarrassed. He wasn't like I often have been, struggling with defensiveness about asking people for money. Paul didn't seem nervous at all. He just said if I've sown to you spiritual things, how much more valuable, Paul is saying, are the spiritual things that I have given you in terms of the carnal things that I could ask for in return?

Really, lets talk about whose getting the fair end of the deal here. Whose getting something more valuable? You're receiving the Word of God, all I'm gettin' is gold. Gold that is cankered and deteriorates and corrupts. All I'm getting out of the deal is money. Well I hope I'm getting more than that, I hope I'm getting your loyalty and all kinds of other things. But in this exchange whose getting the more valuable thing?"

"So we bring our tithe first so that you can enter into a partnership with God. When you bring your tithe and you bring your offering and you bring your commitment you are entering into an agreement with me. And when you enter into an agreement with me, you've got God on your side. Because now you've brought a prophet a cup of cold water and now you're about to step into a prohets reward. Now see thats been terribly distorted by the TV preachers, and the prosperity gospel guys. They've turned that into nothing but just a way to rip people off and get money from people when they are offering nothing in return. But when you do it right, it works." (end quote)

[AreYouReady?]

Ok, so let's go to how the tithe is Biblically defined.

Tithes in the Old Testament was not money. It was 1/10 of the land, whether of the seed or of the fruit of the tree.

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
(Leviticus 27:30)

And it was the tenth animal of the herd under the rod.

And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
(Leviticus 27:32)

The Levites received the tithe because they had NO land inheritance. The other tribes gave a tenth of the increase of the land and of the herd once every three (3) years.

1The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
(Deuterotomy 18:1-2)


At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
(Deuteronomy 14:28)

**Notice...this is not going into the storehouse...it is at the gate.**

When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
(Deuteronomy 26:12)


Come to Beth–el, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:
(Amos 4:4)


If today's tithe preacher wants to preach tithe...then perhaps he ought to receive the true tithe that God sanctioned...food and animals, wine, corn etc. but one thing..he better make sure he is a Levite before he receives the tithe, as the Levites were the only ones scripturally allowed to receive the tithe.

While God did not make tithing a difficult thing for any of the Israelites to give, (a tenth of the increase every three years) today's tithe preacher wants an unscriptural tithe. They want 10% of all you earn plus offerings and they want it every week or as often as you got paid! The Israelites did not live under such a burden. There seems to be more freedom under the law than what today's tithe preachers teach. There is no scriptural basis for a money tithe either in the Old Testament or the New Testament. Todays tithe preacher also owns land and very little (in most cases) of the tithe goes to the stranger, the oppressed, the widow. As one person here put it...it goes to pay for a big church, paved parking lots, utilities etc. Perhaps it goes to a vacation house on a lake, as some preachers in my region own. Or maybe it goes to two brand new SUVs for both him and his wife, while the church members drive old cars.

Now if one wants to delve deeper as to why the people are pushed to "tithe", check out to see if your church is considered to be a 501 (c) (3) Corporation.
If you have financial business meetings every year, then most likely your church is considered a corporation. Hmmmmm....is this what Jesus has in mind when He comes for His bride?

While you are at it, look up the origins of the Federal Reserve to gain a better understanding of what our money is. It is a Federal Reserve Note. It is legal tender but, it is not silver or gold, which is Constitutionally lawful money. Don't believe me? Try paying your traffic fines or taxes with gold or silver. They won't take it. You have to convert any gold or silver into Federal Reserve Notes.

Preachers all the time push tithes using their strongest (fear) doctrine Malachi Chapter 3. This is one of the most misunderstood scriptures of all time. And it is used to deceive people.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Ok, so let's go to how the tithe is Biblically defined.

Tithes in the Old Testament was not money. It was 1/10 of the land, whether of the seed or of the fruit of the tree.

And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.
(Leviticus 27:30)

And it was the tenth animal of the herd under the rod.

And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.
(Leviticus 27:32)

The Levites received the tithe because they had NO land inheritance. The other tribes gave a tenth of the increase of the land and of the herd once every three (3) years.

1The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of the LORD made by fire, and his inheritance.
2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them.
(Deuterotomy 18:1-2)


At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
(Deuteronomy 14:28)

**Notice...this is not going into the storehouse...it is at the gate.**

When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;
(Deuteronomy 26:12)


Come to Beth–el, and transgress; at Gilgal multiply transgression; and bring your sacrifices every morning, and your tithes after three years:
(Amos 4:4)


If today's tithe preacher wants to preach tithe...then perhaps he ought to receive the true tithe that God sanctioned...food and animals, wine, corn etc. but one thing..he better make sure he is a Levite before he receives the tithe, as the Levites were the only ones scripturally allowed to receive the tithe.

While God did not make tithing a difficult thing for any of the Israelites to give, (a tenth of the increase every three years) today's tithe preacher wants an unscriptural tithe. They want 10% of all you earn plus offerings and they want it every week or as often as you got paid! The Israelites did not live under such a burden. There seems to be more freedom under the law than what today's tithe preachers teach. There is no scriptural basis for a money tithe either in the Old Testament or the New Testament. Todays tithe preacher also owns land and very little (in most cases) of the tithe goes to the stranger, the oppressed, the widow. As one person here put it...it goes to pay for a big church, paved parking lots, utilities etc. Perhaps it goes to a vacation house on a lake, as some preachers in my region own. Or maybe it goes to two brand new SUVs for both him and his wife, while the church members drive old cars.

Now if one wants to delve deeper as to why the people are pushed to "tithe", check out to see if your church is considered to be a 501 (c) (3) Corporation.
If you have financial business meetings every year, then most likely your church is considered a corporation. Hmmmmm....is this what Jesus has in mind when He comes for His bride?

While you are at it, look up the origins of the Federal Reserve to gain a better understanding of what our money is. It is a Federal Reserve Note. It is legal tender but, it is not silver or gold, which is Constitutionally lawful money. Don't believe me? Try paying your traffic fines or taxes with gold or silver. They won't take it. You have to convert any gold or silver into Federal Reserve Notes.

Preachers all the time push tithes using their strongest (fear) doctrine Malachi Chapter 3. This is one of the most misunderstood scriptures of all time. And it is used to deceive people.

Every tithing message I've ever heard (Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, OP, AoG) all go the same way with a little mixing it up... but here are the basic components.

From Acts 5 (the scary part) where Ananias and Sapphira we struck dead for withholding money from the sale of property. Obviously it is not happening today if there are as many people withholding all they have from God as it seems and staying alive just fine... but boy is the idea of sudden death powerful scary!

From Malachi 3 (where we are taught how we are cursed for robbing God of the Tithe). Israel was told to bring all the tithes into the storehouse. This was seed, produce, meat and all other agricultural products produced on the land. Not money. Check it our for yourself. I happen to be a farmer but just exactly how happy do you think my pastor would be to see me bring him seed and crops from my harvest, or a side of beef? Well maybe even happy enough but her would still EXPECT my check in the plate on Sunday.

From Genesis 14 (Where we learn that it's TEN percent of the gross) Melchizedek is given 10% of Abram's spoils from war. This is the only time in Abrams 175 years that he ever gave 10% and it was not from his regular income but from things taken in war.

And that is pretty much the song and dance... only none of those scriptures are about my giving 10% of my gross income to the church now and to say they are is to stretch the truth into a lie. I am not saying that every preacher is a liar. Many, having been raised in church, grew up hearing these messages and believed them. They had faithful parents who taught them and they believe that they have seen blessings because of this act of 'tithing' and if God honors the intent of the heart maybe they have indeed. But it does not make it 'truth' any more than that a man can only serve God with a clean shaven face. or any of the other things the church tries to stretch scripture to say.

Tithing in the Christian church was not instituted until there was a paid CLERGY, buildings, and yes...parking lots! From what we can tell about 800 years after Christs death. Until then itinerant preachers were paid with love offerings. Those who were elders in the local church WORKED and supported themselves. Money was collected for the poor, widows and orphans. Now a single mother is more likely to have to get food stamps than to get any help from her church.

Tithing is also the biggest part of what now causes the huge divide between clergy and laity. If someone is being paid to be a 'professional' Christian then we expect them to be doing the Christian work the same way I expect my farm caretaker to feed my animals, mow my grass, and clean the barns. If I pay him every week, why would I shovel manure? In the same way most Christians are no longer willing to get their hands dirty working for God. And sadly many preachers do not want to get their hands dirty working for God either.

No one can sell God by demanding money for serving him, it just aint bible.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I believe it is a very vital question. If the Bible is NOT the final authority, then churches can condone anything that "works" which has become the way most American churches have church. As such we have Super Bowl parties in the church. Give away ipods, TV's, even cars at Easter service (you know-so the sinner is enticed to come, its all about evangelism),etc.

I agree that it's a vital Q, but meant that even your "Super-bowl" church can say that they are following their interpretation? "Condoning anything that works" has to be viewed as subjective, yes? And will be known by its fruit. This speaks to me that I am not to use my judgement in evaluating a belief different from mine (I would largely agree with you), but to discern their fruit.

"...Now see thats been terribly distorted by the TV preachers, and the prosperity gospel guys. They've turned that into nothing but just a way to rip people off and get money from people when they are offering nothing in return. But when you do it right, it works..."

This quote points to this, IMO. If you offer nothing in return, your orchard is gonna be pretty obviously bare, to someone with discernment, who understands that you might live in a mansion, have a chauffeur, eat caviar for breakfast, and still be blind and naked, yes?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

AQP many preachers have made similar statements, most notably is probably the youtube video where Creflo Dollar and Leroy Thompson are dancing in peoples money (check it out if you haven't seen it). That stuff is disgusting and ungodly, but its par for the course as far as that group is concerned. What is alarming is when apostolic men seem to buy into such theology. I'm just floored when I hear men who I believe to be students of the word teach such unbiblical concepts. I don't get it. Such was the case when I listened to an online sermon today, I couldn't believe what was being said or what scripture was being used to justify it.

For the record I didn't accuse anyone of being money hungry but I did question what priority sound Bible doctrine has in the 21st century apostolic church. It seems in some cases we're swallowing the arguments of prosperity preachers hook,line, and sinker. And I'm asking why? Why do we need the prosperity gospel modifed to fit apostolics? If we are going to be a restorationist movement then we shouldn't settle for cracker box theology. I'm speaking in a general sense, not specific, though my thread was based on specific things I've witnessed by eye or ear. Do you think the oneness movement at large is drifting towards TBN style name it and claim it?

I'm thinking such things as the shoe auction, tithing drives, waving money in the air, conference offerings where people are told if they don't give their families wil be destroyed (America on Fire in Dallas a few years back), and the charismatic trend to name drop God. "God spoke to me and said tell my people ......" and then they go into an appeal. Did/does God really tell them to say that? And if He didn't and they say He did aren't they false prophets? The "law" of sowing and reaping being applied so often to money, but rarely to choices we make in life, when Galatians 6 so plainly sets it in order "God is not mocked." "Let me see your checkbook and I can tell if you serve God or not." Hogwash.

False prophets that want a mega-church.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Well... I rather just have someone ask me to throw money at them while they preach than tell me how I will be struck dead instantly and spend eternity in a tormenting hell for robbing God if I do not allow them to extort 10% of my families gross income plus offerings.