I Cannot Forgive!

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by Chan

It's still "will not."

Forgiveness often requires divine intervention.

I disagree. God never entered into a process of forgiving us and He commanded us to forgive as He forgave.

No, we will not learn that in this present life because the wicked worldly philosophy of psychology has corrupted the Church and deceived it into believing in so-called "self-esteem" which is really the sin of pride.

The Bible says that to "fear God and keep His commandments" is "the whole of man" - the end-all and be-all of human existence.

Chan,

Do you ever have a day that you can just appreciate life without being critical? It is very apparent that you have much wisdom...it would be refreshing to see more humanity in your postings.

I do enjoy what you bring here on AFF, because you never fail to cause me to stop and think about the subject at hand. I would love to really know who you are and read your testimony. I consider you the most intriguing member here on AFF...you are definitely unique.

Many blessings to you, my friend.

chosen

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Thanks, Rhoni for your posts here on this thread. I know that forgiveness doesn't always have to be a long journey or process. This thread was written for those that have experienced the inability to forgive those that inflicted so much pain that it was easier to say I forgive than to deal with what happened.

You mentioned victims of sexual, emotional, physical and spiritual abuse above, which were the types of injustices that become obstacles to having joy in their lives.

Many of those that fell prey to those acts lived in a state of agitation, unrest, rebellion, depression and self-pity until they began to allow the Lord to heal those wounds and bring to them the gift of forgiving.

We were not all cut from the same cloth and we must remember that we found ourselves traveling on different paths on this journey.

A truth that I found out a long time ago was that people judge what they don't understand. If we would listen to the heartbeat of God we wouldn't offend so many that deserve better than the ridicule they have faced on this forum and in life.

Chosen,

You have spoken a deep truth here. I cannot speak for anyone but myself and I know I have been guilty in the past of judging others who I felt 'should have known better', or should have trusted God and not..., or even those who held on to offenses to the point of sabotoguing relationships, their jobs, their livelyhoods...all because of the rage, bitterness, anger, hurt, and loss associated with their pain, rejection, abandonment, and abuse they sufferred.

I know it took me almost 7 years to realize that the only person I was hurting was myself...those who offended, rejected, hurt me didn't care what I thought about them or felt about them. I took my journal, wrote down the list of offenses and then dated it the day that I forgave them. I had to go back to that journal daily for a time to remind myself I forgave them. After a while it was weekly, then it became monthly, then it became yearly. Now it only happenes occasionally with a trigger and I have to go back to that date in my journal...March 2002 and remind myself I forgave and pray and ask God to allow me to let it remain in his control and his hand.

When I purposely released it to God, documented it, and then reminded myself and God for years...as God takes me through process...I met similar obstacles and this time tried to react differently. Try to understand the other person's point of reference, their fear, their ignorance of the real issue...and react in a way that preserves the relationship.

I do know there are relationships that cannot be preserved because many people cut you off if you don't do, say, or act in a way they think it appropriate...it becomes their issue. True friends agree to disagree and do not insist their friends think or act the way they do for resolution.

There are times you have to stand alone. But with Christ standing with you...you are not truly alone. The Bible tells us...when we have done all to stand...just stand. God is our strength, our vindicator, our refuge.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Chosen,

You have spoken a deep truth here. I cannot speak for anyone but myself and I know I have been guilty in the past of judging others who I felt 'should have known better', or should have trusted God and not..., or even those who held on to offenses to the point of sabotoguing relationships, their jobs, their livelyhoods...all because of the rage, bitterness, anger, hurt, and loss associated with their pain, rejection, abandonment, and abuse they sufferred.

I know it took me almost 7 years to realize that the only person I was hurting was myself...those who offended, rejected, hurt me didn't care what I thought about them or felt about them. I took my journal, wrote down the list of offenses and then dated it the day that I forgave them. I had to go back to that journal daily for a time to remind myself I forgave them. After a while it was weekly, then it became monthly, then it became yearly. Now it only happenes occasionally with a trigger and I have to go back to that date in my journal...March 2002 and remind myself I forgave and pray and ask God to allow me to let it remain in his control and his hand.

When I purposely released it to God, documented it, and then reminded myself and God for years...as God takes me through process...I met similar obstacles and this time tried to react differently. Try to understand the other person's point of reference, their fear, their ignorance of the real issue...and react in a way that preserves the relationship.

I do know there are relationships that cannot be preserved because many people cut you off if you don't do, say, or act in a way they think it appropriate...it becomes their issue. True friends agree to disagree and do not insist their friends think or act the way they do for resolution.

There are times you have to stand alone. But with Christ standing with you...you are not truly alone. The Bible tells us...when we have done all to stand...just stand. God is our strength, our vindicator, our refuge.
Blessings, Rhoni

This is a profound statement, Sis. Rhoni, and so true!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

Originally Posted by Subdued

I don't think H1 was saying that it is irrelevant; just that it is difficult.

I'm the one who said "That it is not easy is irrelevant." In other words, the fact that it is not necessarily easy to forgive is irrelevant to the fact that we are commanded to forgive.

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Chan,

Do you ever have a day that you can just appreciate life without being critical? It is very apparent that you have much wisdom...it would be refreshing to see more humanity in your postings.

I do enjoy what you bring here on AFF, because you never fail to cause me to stop and think about the subject at hand. I would love to really know who you are and read your testimony. I consider you the most intriguing member here on AFF...you are definitely unique.

Many blessings to you, my friend.

chosen

This thread isn't about appreciating life.

When people write about wanting to see more "humanity" in someone else's response to things, it seems like code for "compromise biblical truth" or "it's okay to compromise once in a while on what the Bible says." Whether or not that's what you're doing, I don't know but these kinds of responses always seem to come about when I present what the Bible commands. Some people here seem to be looking to excuse their refusal to obey the clear command of scripture no matter how hard such obedience is and no matter how much that obedience may even require divine intervention. Forgiveness is one of those areas where a lot of Christians try to justify disobeying God's command or who become unwitting servants of Satan by bringing in worldly views such as "forgive doesn't mean we have to forget" or "forgive doesn't mean we have to trust." We try so hard to come up with reasons why either certain things God commands don't apply to us or don't apply to us in certain situations. We so often base our view of things on our emotions instead of on absolute truth. We allow our hearts (the seat of emotions), which God's word tells us is deceitful above all things and desperately sick, to rule us and to dictate our view of things.

Jesus commanded us to forgive and the New Testament further tells us that we must forgive as He forgave us. How did He forgive us? The Bible tells us that He (figuratively) casts our sins into the sea (meaning to remove the guilt of them from us), casts them from us as far as the east is from the west (that's in a straight line and not in the circumference of the globe where east and west eventually meet), and remembers them no more. There is no room for compromise on this. Jesus didn't say, "forgive but you don't have to forget" or say, "forgive, but you don't have to ever trust the person again." We must forgive the way God forgives us!!!! The consequence if we don't is that God will not forgive us. So, I'm hoping you can see how serious a matter this is.

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Chan is on a hobby horse again...just ignore him.

I'm getting sick of your veiled personal attacks!

Chosenbyone...excellent posts and I firmly believe that forgiveness can be a process as well as an immediate resolution.

Did anyone here say otherwise?

Forgiving someone does not mean trusting them nor should one put oneself in the position to be abused again. Certain sins carry a lifetime stigma and well they should. Sexual sins carry spirits that easily attach themselves to people when they are not submitted to the will of God/and or practicing spiritual disciplines from the heart.

Where is this found in the BIBLE??? The BIBLE tells us to forgive the way God forgave us! Show me where the BIBLE tells us that God forgives us but still withholds trust from us.

Victims of sexual or physical abuse may forgive but have a process of healing emotionally, physically, and spiritually to go through regardless of the 'forgiving' the predator/abuser. Re-parenting and retraining the victim as to normal and healthy relationships is a must in order to live a Biblically healthy life.

Blessings, Rhoni

This is entirely irrelevant. God commands us to forgive as He forgave us. Any healing from the hurt that we suffered is for God to do.

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by Chan

This thread isn't about appreciating life.

When people write about wanting to see more "humanity" in someone else's response to things, it seems like code for "compromise biblical truth" or "it's okay to compromise once in a while on what the Bible says." Whether or not that's what you're doing, I don't know but these kinds of responses always seem to come about when I present what the Bible commands. Some people here seem to be looking to excuse their refusal to obey the clear command of scripture no matter how hard such obedience is and no matter how much that obedience may even require divine intervention. Forgiveness is one of those areas where a lot of Christians try to justify disobeying God's command or who become unwitting servants of Satan by bringing in worldly views such as "forgive doesn't mean we have to forget" or "forgive doesn't mean we have to trust." We try so hard to come up with reasons why either certain things God commands don't apply to us or don't apply to us in certain situations. We so often base our view of things on our emotions instead of on absolute truth. We allow our hearts (the seat of emotions), which God's word tells us is deceitful above all things and desperately sick, to rule us and to dictate our view of things.

Jesus commanded us to forgive and the New Testament further tells us that we must forgive as He forgave us. How did He forgive us? The Bible tells us that He (figuratively) casts our sins into the sea (meaning to remove the guilt of them from us), casts them from us as far as the east is from the west (that's in a straight line and not in the circumference of the globe where east and west eventually meet), and remembers them no more. There is no room for compromise on this. Jesus didn't say, "forgive but you don't have to forget" or say, "forgive, but you don't have to ever trust the person again." We must forgive the way God forgives us!!!! The consequence if we don't is that God will not forgive us. So, I'm hoping you can see how serious a matter this is.

Brother Chan,

You never fail to disappoint me when I read your rebuttals that you post here on AFF. Though you and I may express ourselves differently, I find that we have more in common than one might think.

I know that your statements above regarding "forgive doesn't mean we forget" and "forgive doesn't mean we have to trust" were not directed at what I've written on this thread.

People use language like not forgetting or trusting after you forgive a person, because that is part of the process of them getting to where they can fully and honestly forgive.

I know that you only see things in black and white with no room for gray when it comes to every subject you come across. That is why I think that you are unique, because you never let anyone see anything else but this hard line exterior.

I strongly believe that we must forgive others so that we will be forgiving by God. My journey has taught me that God sees between the black and white through His grace and mercy. He is patient to allow us to work through situations in order to bring wisdom and understanding so that we won't have to keep taking such long journeys the next time something similar may happen again in our lives.

God bless you, Brother Chan.

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Chosen,

You have spoken a deep truth here. I cannot speak for anyone but myself and I know I have been guilty in the past of judging others who I felt 'should have known better', or should have trusted God and not..., or even those who held on to offenses to the point of sabotoguing relationships, their jobs, their livelyhoods...all because of the rage, bitterness, anger, hurt, and loss associated with their pain, rejection, abandonment, and abuse they sufferred.

I know it took me almost 7 years to realize that the only person I was hurting was myself...those who offended, rejected, hurt me didn't care what I thought about them or felt about them. I took my journal, wrote down the list of offenses and then dated it the day that I forgave them. I had to go back to that journal daily for a time to remind myself I forgave them. After a while it was weekly, then it became monthly, then it became yearly. Now it only happenes occasionally with a trigger and I have to go back to that date in my journal...March 2002 and remind myself I forgave and pray and ask God to allow me to let it remain in his control and his hand.

When I purposely released it to God, documented it, and then reminded myself and God for years...as God takes me through process...I met similar obstacles and this time tried to react differently. Try to understand the other person's point of reference, their fear, their ignorance of the real issue...and react in a way that preserves the relationship.

I do know there are relationships that cannot be preserved because many people cut you off if you don't do, say, or act in a way they think it appropriate...it becomes their issue. True friends agree to disagree and do not insist their friends think or act the way they do for resolution.

There are times you have to stand alone. But with Christ standing with you...you are not truly alone. The Bible tells us...when we have done all to stand...just stand. God is our strength, our vindicator, our refuge.

Blessings, Rhoni

Great post, Rhoni!

Originally Posted by chosenbyone

Brother Chan,

You never fail to disappoint me when I read your rebuttals that you post here on AFF. Though you and I may express ourselves differently, I find that we have more in common than one might think.

Agreed.

I know that your statements above regarding "forgive doesn't mean we forget" and "forgive doesn't mean we have to trust" were not directed at what I've written on this thread.

No. While they were for whomever the shoe fits, they were directed toward a certain individual promoting a certain wicked worldly philosophy called "psychology" (all worldly philosophies are wicked just because they're of the world).

People use language like not forgetting or trusting after you forgive a person, because that is part of the process of them getting to where they can fully and honestly forgive.

No, some individuals here use it to try to justify disobeying God's command! They look for excuses to hold a person's sin against him.

I know that you only see things in black and white with no room for gray when it comes to every subject you come across. That is why I think that you are unique, because you never let anyone see anything else but this hard line exterior.

Well, when it comes to things that are clearly commanded in scripture, I agree that there is no room for gray. And, yes, I do believe in moral absolutes. This notion of moral relativity some people here try to bring into the Church is a lie from the very pit of Hell (and I don't mean the city in Michigan).

I strongly believe that we must forgive others so that we will be forgiving by God. My journey has taught me that God sees between the black and white through His grace and mercy. He is patient to allow us to work through situations in order to bring wisdom and understanding so that we won't have to keep taking such long journeys the next time something similar may happen again in our lives.

God's word is clear that we must forgive as He forgave us. The hard part isn't understanding how God forgives us but, instead, overcoming our fleshly desire for vengeance or for otherwise continually holding the person's sin against him. Too many Christians today try to make excuses for why somehow God's command doesn't really apply to them or to their situation. Sometimes God's commands are hard for us to receive but receive them we must.

God bless you, Brother Chan.

You too!