All we know is Tongues happen according to Paul and when Interpreted it's purpose is to edify the body. Your speculations are unscriptural
Speculations?????? My thoughts are my thoughts, just as yours are yours.
However, if you read and understand I Cor 13 & 14, it is readily clear that Paul is instructing against misuse of the gifts of the Spirit. And it is clear that he believes teaching of "substance" in the native tongue, in the church is the most profitable. No, he is not prohibiting tongues, but he clearly is placing some boundaries and order.
My posts are not just speculations, they are based squarely on the truths of Paul's teaching. So, I see your objections as mistaken.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Speculations?????? My thoughts are my thoughts, just as yours are yours.
However, if you read and understand I Cor 13 & 14, it is readily clear that Paul is instructing against misuse of the gifts of the Spirit. And it is clear that he believes teaching of "substance" in the native tongue, in the church is the most profitable. No, he is not prohibiting tongues, but he clearly is placing some boundaries and order.
My posts are not just speculations, they are based squarely on the truths of Paul's teaching. So, I see your objections as mistaken.
Are there two threads with the same name?
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
Speculations?????? My thoughts are my thoughts, just as yours are yours.
However, if you read and understand I Cor 13 & 14, it is readily clear that Paul is instructing against misuse of the gifts of the Spirit. And it is clear that he believes teaching of "substance" in the native tongue, in the church is the most profitable. No, he is not prohibiting tongues, but he clearly is placing some boundaries and order.
My posts are not just speculations, they are based squarely on the truths of Paul's teaching. So, I see your objections as mistaken.
I didn't refer to posts, I referred to your assertion that T&I mostly occur in churches where ministry majors on the minor...not one verse to support that
And you added "I believe this deep longing came because of a lack of deep expository preaching that satisfies the spiritually hunger of believer"
Not "The bible says" but "I believe"...sounds like speculation to me
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I didn't refer to posts, I referred to your assertion that T&I mostly occur in churches where ministry majors on the minor...not one verse to support that
And you added "I believe this deep longing came because of a lack of deep expository preaching that satisfies the spiritually hunger of believer"
Not "The bible says" but "I believe"...sounds like speculation to me
I can speak the truth form experience and understanding, without quoting scripture. If all you know is a scientific understanding of the scripture, you will never "know" God.
You are still taking the statement out of context, I did not say it should be that way, I said is happens. Nor do I particularly see this use of T&I as inspired. Your argument completely misses the point, but hey, you refuse to understand.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
I can speak the truth form experience and understanding, without quoting scripture. If all you know is a scientific understanding of the scripture, you will never "know" God.
You are still taking the statement out of context, I did not say it should be that way, I said is happens. Nor do I particularly see this use of T&I as inspired. Your argument completely misses the point, but hey, you refuse to understand.
That is just like your UR doctrine, based on subjective reasoning and not objective evidence.
Scientific? I asked for SCRIPTURES lol not science. ROFL. BTW You just judged me. How do you know I don't already know God? I know Him. KNOW is not an emotion. It's Intellect. I can READ His word because He gave me an Intellect to KNOW Him. I can talk to him too, not just sit there and be happy or sad in fits of emotional highs and lows. I use what God gave me, a brain
Truth is not a subjective emotion. 1+1 is true, not because you feel like it is true. God is real. He lives. He is True. I can know what His word says by my intellect. If you approach His word by your own feelings then you are subject to read into what the word says what you are predispositioned to feel
You made a valuation. You said "Much of the desire for T&I comes when the ministry is majoring in the minors, and not presenting deep spiritual and practical truths. The folks get restless and hungry for what God desires."
The opposite might be true. The desire might come from a ministry that is balanced and a ministry that is balanced promotes everything scripturally for the church including the fruit and the gifts.
Then you added "I believe"...That sounds like your opinion. That sounds like you are speculating. You don't have scripture to back that up. You have your opinion, how you feel on the matter, what you "think".
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
That is just like your UR doctrine, based on subjective reasoning and not objective evidence.
Scientific? I asked for SCRIPTURES lol not science. ROFL. BTW You just judged me. How do you know I don't already know God? I know Him. KNOW is not an emotion. It's Intellect. I can READ His word because He gave me an Intellect to KNOW Him. I can talk to him too, not just sit there and be happy or sad in fits of emotional highs and lows. I use what God gave me, a brain
Truth is not a subjective emotion. 1+1 is true, not because you feel like it is true. God is real. He lives. He is True. I can know what His word says by my intellect. If you approach His word by your own feelings then you are subject to read into what the word says what you are predispositioned to feel
You made a valuation. You said "Much of the desire for T&I comes when the ministry is majoring in the minors, and not presenting deep spiritual and practical truths. The folks get restless and hungry for what God desires."
The opposite might be true. The desire might come from a ministry that is balanced and a ministry that is balanced promotes everything scripturally for the church including the fruit and the gifts.
Then you added "I believe"...That sounds like your opinion. That sounds like you are speculating. You don't have scripture to back that up. You have your opinion, how you feel on the matter, what you "think".
"If all you know is a scientific understanding of the scripture, you will never "know" God."
Knowing God most definitely includes the emotions and spirit of humans. That is the exact point I was making. "...the letter kills, it is the spirit that makes alive..." It is not either or it is both!!!
Are you an engineer or an accountant? LOL
I did not judge you, maybe you judged yourself? Based on the bolded, in your quotes above, who is judging who?
The opposite certainly is true in very many contexts, but it was NOT true in the context that I was referencing.
Of course it is my opinion, based on my knowledge and experience. You quote a lot of scripture, you readily apply YOUR opinions and YOUR understanding of what certain scriptures mean. This is a discussion, I will post scripture and my opinions as I choose, you can choose to engage my posts or not.
You would do well to engage the discussion, voicing your opinions and quoting scripture, but tone way down on the attack mode. We are friends here and should carry on as such. You have good opinions and understanding to share, but quite frankly you cause your audience to be very hesitate to receive some of your contributions.
This is my opinion and my observations, you may do with it what you will.
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
"If all you know is a scientific understanding of the scripture, you will never "know" God."
Knowing God most definitely includes the emotions and spirit of humans. That is the exact point I was making. "...the letter kills, it is the spirit that makes alive..." It is not either or it is both!!!
Are you an engineer or an accountant? LOL
I did not judge you, maybe you judged yourself? Based on the bolded, in your quotes above, who is judging who?
The opposite certainly is true in very many contexts, but it was NOT true in the context that I was referencing.
Of course it is my opinion, based on my knowledge and experience. You quote a lot of scripture, you readily apply YOUR opinions and YOUR understanding of what certain scriptures mean. This is a discussion, I will post scripture and my opinions as I choose, you can choose to engage my posts or not.
You would do well to engage the discussion, voicing your opinions and quoting scripture, but tone way down on the attack mode. We are friends here and should carry on as such. You have good opinions and understanding to share, but quite frankly you cause your audience to be very hesitate to receive some of your contributions.
This is my opinion and my observations, you may do with it what you will.
Bump
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
"If all you know is a scientific understanding of the scripture, you will never "know" God."
I already know God. The bible is a book, not a test tube. You read it and understand it. God gave you a brain, use it
Quote:
Knowing God most definitely includes the emotions and spirit of humans.
Having a relationship but understanding God's word is not defined by one's whimful emotions. How do you think we got so many false doctrines going around? Everyone thinks they "feel" what is right.
Quote:
That is the exact point I was making. "...the letter kills, it is the spirit that makes alive..." It is not either or it is both!!!
If you think for one second that means the word of God (letter) kills you are seriously deluded or you are simply mis-using the word of God for your own argument. I suppose you think it's ok to go out and hang yourself because Jesus said "go thou and do likewise"? The word of God must be handled honestly and intelligently or you will never "know" God..see how it works?
Quote:
I did not judge you, maybe you judged yourself? Based on the bolded, in your quotes above, who is judging who?
You, you speculated that I did not know God. Before that you speculated/insinuated that churches that have the gifts in operation are shallow churches
Quote:
Of course it is my opinion, based on my knowledge and experience.
You're experience is subjective. You presume a church that is more deeper teaching is somehow more spiritual, yet you just spent time actually trying to refute such a notion lol...I bet you won't even get that point
Quote:
You quote a lot of scripture, you readily apply YOUR opinions and YOUR understanding of what certain scriptures mean. This is a discussion, I will post scripture and my opinions as I choose, you can choose to engage my posts or not.
I don't claim my views of doctrine is based on emotions. I don't claim the bible means whatever I "feel" it should mean. This IS a discussion and I HAVE been engaging what you've said, that's why we are here
Quote:
You would do well to engage the discussion, voicing your opinions and quoting scripture, but tone way down on the attack mode. We are friends here and should carry on as such. You have good opinions and understanding to share, but quite frankly you cause your audience to be very hesitate to receive some of your contributions.
Well wait a second, you imply I don't know God and you are gonna point your finger at me? ROFL. I was just testing your words vs scriptures, you were the one that suggested I don't know God CJ
Quote:
This is my opinion and my observations, you may do with it what you will.
I have been and will
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I already know God. The bible is a book, not a test tube. You read it and understand it. God gave you a brain, use it
Having a relationship but understanding God's word is not defined by one's whimful emotions. How do you think we got so many false doctrines going around? Everyone thinks they "feel" what is right.
If you think for one second that means the word of God (letter) kills you are seriously deluded or you are simply mis-using the word of God for your own argument. I suppose you think it's ok to go out and hang yourself because Jesus said "go thou and do likewise"? The word of God must be handled honestly and intelligently or you will never "know" God..see how it works?
You, you speculated that I did not know God. Before that you speculated/insinuated that churches that have the gifts in operation are shallow churches
You're experience is subjective. You presume a church that is more deeper teaching is somehow more spiritual, yet you just spent time actually trying to refute such a notion lol...I bet you won't even get that point
I don't claim my views of doctrine is based on emotions. I don't claim the bible means whatever I "feel" it should mean. This IS a discussion and I HAVE been engaging what you've said, that's why we are here
Well wait a second, you imply I don't know God and you are gonna point your finger at me? ROFL. I was just testing your words vs scriptures, you were the one that suggested I don't know God CJ
I have been and will
You mistook my words: I did not suggest that you don't know God, nor do I think that you don't. Nor did I say that churches that have the gifts in operation are shallow, nor do I think that.
I said that to know God you must have both a emotional and an intellectual knowledge of Him. Jesus is the Word, therefore a good working knowledge of scripture is required, but a solid emotional response to scripture is also required to know God. The Word will "kill" the unbalanced scholar, just as we have recently seen in the "Rev" Camping, and we can see the emotionally imbalanced on TBN and the like quite regularly.
As to the gifts, I was decrying the MISUSE of the gifts of T&I, I'm not sure you really disagree with these points?
You may have attacked my presentation because you love argumentation, I think???
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
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