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| Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other. |
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05-12-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
I'm not part of the UPC. I belong to a independent OP church. If I walked into a UPC fellowship on a Sunday morning they would try to save me!
What differences have you seen?
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I'm just refering to the differences in the oneness conceptions of the writings by men like Bernard, Hall, Urshan, Goss, Haywood, McGee, Sabin, Segraves, Gray, Dulle, etc.
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05-12-2007, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedDave
I'm just refering to the differences in the oneness conceptions of the writings by men like Bernard, Hall, Urshan, Goss, Haywood, McGee, Sabin, Segraves, Gray, Dulle, etc.
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The differences I see with Oneness writers in their perception of God is when it comes to the incarnation. Otherwise they all see God as one "person" who manifests himself in different modes.
There is a distinction between God and his Son, that is where the differences of these writers lie (or is it lay?). IMO
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05-12-2007, 07:08 PM
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Saved & Shaved
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
The differences I see with Oneness writers in their perception of God is when it comes to the incarnation. Otherwise they all see God as one "person" who manifests himself in different modes.
There is a distinction between God and his Son, that is where the differences of these writers lie (or is it lay?). IMO
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If there were no distinction then why is there a clear distinction in the scriptures?
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05-12-2007, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
The differences I see with Oneness writers in their perception of God is when it comes to the incarnation. Otherwise they all see God as one "person" who manifests himself in different modes.
There is a distinction between God and his Son, that is where the differences of these writers lie (or is it lay?). IMO
Quote:
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If there were no distinction then why is there a clear distinction in the scriptures?
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Berkeley,
I said there IS a distinction!
BTW, I like your new avatar.
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05-12-2007, 07:32 PM
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Saved & Shaved
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Berkeley,
I said there IS a distinction!
BTW, I like your new avatar.
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my bad.. lol.. I'm distracted.. watching "Jakes throw back.." or sumtin like that
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05-12-2007, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedDave
Is the God of Trinitarians a different One from the Oneness adherants?
From what I've read David Benard would disagree. He'd say that we both worship the same God though one has a mistaken conception of Him.
What say ye and more importantly, why?
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David Bernard is very generous in his appraisal of those who worship the God of the Bible whether Oneness or Trinitarian. I hope God is more so, but I'm sincerely not sure because:
God is seeking for those who will worship him in spirit and in truth.
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05-13-2007, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedDave
But that's really not my question? It's not one of 'significance'. It's one of 'essence'. Does the trinitarian worship a different God than the oneness? Does the conception change the Diety?
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Jesus knew who he worshipped as did the Jews. They didn't worship a God who was Trinity. It makes a difference.
John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
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05-13-2007, 01:25 PM
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crakjak
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: dallas area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
Jesus knew who he worshipped as did the Jews. They didn't worship a God who was Trinity. It makes a difference.
John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. |
Is it not apparent from these verses Jesus is speaking of His Father as someone other than Himself?? With this type of terminology can we not have some reasonable tolerance for someone having a different view of the definition of the Godhead. I know the traditional OP response to this question, so just save your breath. But I don't believe God rejects someone on the basis of a different twist or understanding in this matter, nor do I believe they worship another God. I believe the women in these verses was a pagan, and did not know the God of the Jews.
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05-13-2007, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crakjak
Is it not apparent from these verses Jesus is speaking of His Father as someone other than Himself?? With this type of terminology can we not have some reasonable tolerance for someone having a different view of the definition of the Godhead. I know the traditional OP response to this question, so just save your breath. But I don't believe God rejects someone on the basis of a different twist or understanding in this matter, nor do I believe they worship another God. I believe the women in these verses was a pagan, and did not know the God of the Jews.
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The point I'm trying to make is that Jesus and the Jews KNEW who they worshipped. I can't find anywhere in the OT where they worshipped God as a Trinity; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Like I said in a previous post on this thread I'm not sure belief in the Trinity condemns anyone.
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05-13-2007, 03:24 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianoman
If you asked most saints from Oneness churches why they believe in Oneness, most of them would say it's because it's what their pastor preaches. The same goes with folks from Trinitarian churches.
If one has to have a clear understanding of the godhead to be saved, we're all in trouble! Most of us believe that the God of the Holy Bible has saved us. I think that's good enough!  |
Well let's ask. I will start. I believe in the Oneness because I believe it is the best explanation of what the bible teaches. In fact what I believe is not exactly what my first or current pastor taught. My knowledge and views of the Godhead were mostly influenced by personal study, dialoging with Trinitarians, reading the works of other Apostolics like Jason Dulle and David Bernard
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