Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace - Page 4

Socialite · #31 03-29-2011, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin

That took courage!!

I'm sorry to offend... but I get weary of these Jesus + (FILL IN THE BLANK) teachings that offend the Cross. Tired of these wacky theological systems that are arrived at by experience, then eisgesis as the Text get's manipulated, molested and raped, stretched out so far it looks like the Prof. Clump trying on a tutu.

If people could just step back and listen to themselves sometimes. Are you sure we are believing the same Gospel?

"If any man preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed."

onefaith2 · #32 03-29-2011, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

I'm sorry to offend... but I get weary of these Jesus + (FILL IN THE BLANK) teachings that offend the Cross. Tired of these wacky theological systems that are arrived at by experience, then eisgesis as the Text get's manipulated, molested and raped, stretched out so far it looks like the Prof. Clump trying on a tutu.

If people could just step back and listen to themselves sometimes. Are you sure we are believing the same Gospel?

"If any man preach any other Gospel, let him be accursed."

Apostolics don't preach Jesus +.. they preach acts 2:38 is the way to Jesus, the response to his gospel. Baptism is not in addition to Jesus, its putting into Jesus' death

The HG baptism is not an addition to Jesus, its experience Jesus' promise of empowerment.

Socialite · #33 03-29-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

I believe in the hearts of many earnest believers, it is the case. But we as the church must speak for salvation as a whole, all of it, including justification and sanctification. Since the new birth has been mostly associated with justification, the idea of it being a process as well as an event has been lost somewhere, except in the pages and minds of the PCI and those who have earnestly followed their mindset after realization of this problem.

You are right. Everything is at the door of Justification, ironically the most powerful work of the Cross (us being made right before God). We've bottled everything else in our theology up on that doorstep too: discipleship, maturity, gifts of the Spirit, Spirit baptism, disciplines, etc.

It's always Hell or else... even if it isn't said so explicitly anymore. The culture speaks for itself.

Socialite · #34 03-29-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Apostolics don't preach Jesus +.. they preach acts 2:38 is the way to Jesus, the response to his gospel. Baptism is not in addition to Jesus, its putting into Jesus' death

The HG baptism is not an addition to Jesus, its experience Jesus' promise of empowerment.

That's just not true. He found His way to us. The Gospel is the work of Jesus past, present and in the future. We accept it the same way Abraham accepted it -- by believing.

Everything else is most certainly an addition if it's looked to as a way of salvation. Jesus Only. Where's the real Jesus Only folks.

onefaith2 · #35 03-29-2011, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

You are right. Everything is at the door of Justification, ironically the most powerful work of the Cross (us being made right before God). We've bottled everything else in our theology up on that doorstep too: discipleship, maturity, gifts of the Spirit, Spirit baptism, disciplines, etc.

It's always Hell or else... even if it isn't said so explicitly anymore. The culture speaks for itself.

The idea is if one experiences all these things and is still lost, they must not have had everthing. The mindset is, He's still working on me and the goal is heaven. A person has to embrace OSAS to escape the fact that even saved from sin, a person can still be lost eternally if they so choose to be.

onefaith2 · #36 03-29-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

That's just not true. He found His way to us. The Gospel is the work of Jesus past, present and in the future. We accept it the same way Abraham accepted it -- by believing.

Everything else is most certainly an addition if it's looked to as a way of salvation. Jesus Only. Where's the real Jesus Only folks.

That is true, thats exactly what Peter told them to do. No amount of theology can get past the fact that acts 2:38 is the person's response that they believe the gospel. What Abraham did is embodied in that, when one believes Christ, they repent. Thats part of it!

Jesus said except ye repent, ye will perish. He Himself included this requirement.

Socialite · #37 03-29-2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onefaith2

The idea is if one experiences all these things and is still lost, they must not have had everthing. The mindset is, He's still working on me and the goal is heaven. A person has to embrace OSAS to escape the fact that even saved from sin, a person can still be lost eternally if they so choose to be.

Is that really the goal? Really????

I mean the primary goal is to go to this cool place called Heaven?

Austin · #38 03-29-2011, 10:41 AM

I can tell you all right now. Salvation is by faith in the shed blood of Jesus and nothing else. If a person of any church is claiming to be a christian then they must have undergone a spiritual transformation or they are not like Christ and can't claim to be a christian. If someone is teaching that your are saved by keeping the commandments then PAUL SAID.Having begun in faith are you now made perfect by the law,? he then stated, I fear that you have fallen from grace[ Fell out of favor with God} In other words they are not in alignment with the mind and plan of God.
If someone is claiming to be saved it has to be in past tense. That is what faith is. Know you have something even though it has not appeared.Anything outside of that is confessing to being saved at some point in time. If that is the case of a believer then they are not saved at all. I wish people could understand the true doctrine of sanctification instead of misleading people into a hard yoke that they who teach it do even follow>

onefaith2 · #39 03-29-2011, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Is that really the goal? Really????

I mean the primary goal is to go to this cool place called Heaven?

Is that not your goal also? To live with Jesus forever in the New Jerusalem? Why else would you be living this way? If not to accept the gift of eternal life he is giving you?

onefaith2 · #40 03-29-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin

I can tell you all right now. Salvation is by faith in the shed blood of Jesus and nothing else. If a person of any church is claiming to be a christian then they must have undergone a spiritual transformation or they are not like Christ and can't claim to be a christian. If someone is teaching that your are saved by keeping the commandments then PAUL SAID.Having begun in faith are you now made perfect by the law,? he then stated, I fear that you have fallen from grace[ Fell out of favor with God} In other words they are not in alignment with the mind and plan of God.
If someone is claiming to be saved it has to be in past tense. That is what faith is. Know you have something even though it has not appeared.Anything outside of that is confessing to being saved at some point in time. If that is the case of a believer then they are not saved at all. I wish people could understand the true doctrine of sanctification instead of misleading people into a hard yoke that they who teach it do even follow>

How does this transformation take place? Magically? At the moment you believe? When you are baptized? These questions are answered in the BIble, if we would read them.