Who are the Saints in this verse? - Page 4

Truly Blessed · #31 05-07-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

That is standard pre-trib dispensationalism. I happen to agree with it too except for the part about God's Spirit being withdrawn from the earth. I think He will still be here quickening some folks and working in those who allow it.

If the Spirit is present "quickening some folks and working in those who allow it" and this results in their salvation, why wouldn't the same be true right now then? The Spirit is "quickening and working in those who will allow it right now", yet they're going to be lost according to some folks. Of course they can just stick around until after the rapture and be quickened again and this time it will matter.

Truly Blessed · #32 05-07-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes....but where else in scriptures is it worded in such a way that God GAVE someone power to persecute His own church?

God has allowed His people under both the Old and New Covenant to experience the wrath of man and the fury of the enemy. I'm surprised you would question this.

Scott Hutchinson · #33 05-07-2007, 09:40 PM

I'm not here for debate ,I want to be ready for the resurrection, since the church's inception the church has gone through tribulation ,somewhere in the world God's children are facing severe tribulation.

ChTatum · #34 05-07-2007, 09:59 PM

I ain't sure who they are, but they ain't todays Pharisees.

Michael The Disciple · #35 05-07-2007, 10:45 PM

God will give power to the Beast to kill his people in the same way he turned the heart of the Egyptians to hate his people.

23: Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.
24: And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies.
25: He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants. Psalms 105:23-25

This will serve several purposes.

It will put a longing in our hearts for the coming of Yeshua that does not seem to be there now. People are generally not enthused about overcoming sin and abiding in him. When multitudes begin dying for Christ some will draw close others will depart the faith. The Church will be purified knowing they will soon see the Master.

It will prove to his people that just as he was able to sustain Israel in the wilderness he can do the same for them. Signs and wonders will be multiplied. They that understand among the people shall instruct many. Those that know YHWH shall be strong and do exploits. HE will be glorified!

32: And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33: And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34: Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35: And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. Daniel 11:32-35

Neck · #36 05-07-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Rev 13:7 The beast was permitted to go to war against the saints and conquer them. He was given ruling authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation,

The goal is to not be around to find out who or why in person. I fully have hope that we will be gone by this event.

Neck · #37 05-07-2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes....but where else in scriptures is it worded in such a way that God GAVE someone power to persecute His own church?

Hello! The writer of Rev was boiled in oil?

Praxeas · #38 05-07-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truly Blessed

God has allowed His people under both the Old and New Covenant to experience the wrath of man and the fury of the enemy. I'm surprised you would question this.

You didn't answer my question. Im not surprised. Where else, except when His church is backslidden, does he openly say he is giving someone power to come against them?

Praxeas · #39 05-07-2007, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

God will give power to the Beast to kill his people in the same way he turned the heart of the Egyptians to hate his people.

23: Israel also came into Egypt; and Jacob sojourned in the land of Ham.
24: And he increased his people greatly; and made them stronger than their enemies.
25: He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants. Psalms 105:23-25

This will serve several purposes.

It will put a longing in our hearts for the coming of Yeshua that does not seem to be there now. People are generally not enthused about overcoming sin and abiding in him. When multitudes begin dying for Christ some will draw close others will depart the faith. The Church will be purified knowing they will soon see the Master.

It will prove to his people that just as he was able to sustain Israel in the wilderness he can do the same for them. Signs and wonders will be multiplied. They that understand among the people shall instruct many. Those that know YHWH shall be strong and do exploits. HE will be glorified!

32: And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33: And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34: Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35: And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. Daniel 11:32-35

good reply....in fact the only reply so far I have seen to the issue