Hell's Best Kept Secret? Ray Comfort

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

I shall never stray from the cross. All who have left those grounds are lost.

There is no turning anything upside down apart FROM the cross and its preaching.

So, I guess the Apostles were all lost since they went from the cross to the empty tomb and from the empty tomb to Pentecost and from Pentecost to turn the Roman Empire upside down with the gospel (which includes not only the cross but also the empty tomb) and finally home to Heaven?

Oh! Good grief, Chan!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Chan

Driving from the rear view mirror???? We're talking about getting sinners to the cross so that they can begin the journey. We're not talking about Christians; though Christians certainly need to be reminded from time to time about denying themselves, taking up their crosses, dying to themselves, about how judgment begins at the house of God, and how the righteous are scarcely saved.

Of course, all this stuff you said about not looking behind is contradicted by your exclamation "SOMEONE PLEASE POINT ME TO THE CROSS!!!!"

What would do you well is to break free from your insular persona and give yourself room for discretionary thinking...

[J-Roc]

Chan, have you ever considered that what you DO speaks so LOUDLY that most everyone can hardly HEAR what you are saying?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by keith4him

I think some of Ray's teaching on this is helpful.

This is from Hell's Best Kept Secret

And the tragedy of modern evangelism is because around the turn of the century when it forsook the law in its capacity to convert the soul, to drive sinners to Christ, modern evangelism had to, therefore, find another reason for sinners to respond to the gospel. And the issue that modern evangelism chose to attract sinners was the issue of “life enhancement”. The gospel degenerated into “Jesus Christ will give you peace, joy, love, fulfillment, and lasting happiness.” Now to illustrate the unscriptural nature of this very popular teaching, I’d like you to listen very carefully to this following anecdote, because the essence of what I’m saying pivots on this particular illustration; so please listen carefully.
Two men are seated in a plane. The first is given a parachute and told to put is on as it would improve his flight. He’s a little skeptical at first because he can’t see how wearing a parachute in a plane could possibly improve the flight. After a time he decides to experiment and see if the claim is true. As he puts it on he notices the weight of it upon his shoulders and he finds that he has difficulty in sitting upright. However, he consoles himself with the fact that he was told the parachute would improve the flight. So, he decides to give the thing a little time. As he waits he notices that some of the other passengers are laughing at him, because he’s wearing a parachute in a plane. He begins to feel somewhat humiliated. As they begin to point and laugh at him and he can stand it no longer, he slinks in his seat, unstraps the parachute, and throws it to the floor. Disillusionment and bitterness fill his heart, because, as far as he was concerned, he was told an outright lie.
The second man is given a parachute, but listen to what he’s told. He’s told to put it on because at any moment he’d be jumping 25,000 feet out of the plane. He gratefully puts the parachute on; he doesn’t notice the weight of it upon his shoulders, nor that he can’t sit upright. His mind is consumed with the thought of what would happen to him if he jumped without that parachute.
Let’s analyze the motive and the result of each passenger’s experience. The first man’s motive for putting the parachute on was solely to improve his flight. The result of his experience was that he was humiliated by the passengers; he was disillusioned and somewhat embittered against those who gave him the parachute. As far as he’s concerned it’ll be a long time before anyone gets one of those things on his back again. The second man put the parachute on solely to escape the jump to come, and because of his knowledge of what would happen to him without it, he has a deep-rooted joy and peace in his heart knowing that he’s saved from sure death. This knowledge gives him the ability to withstand the mockery of the other passengers. His attitude towards those who gave him the parachute is one of heart-felt gratitude.

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the plane analogy, but what I think it fails to consider, and what should be given emphasis is that (well, for one thing, it refers to future events and after life...and this topic of after life is not something that most people living can truly relate to...it is pretty neat in theory but in practical terms, people are not thinking so much about the future....just a look how so many people fail to plan for retirement is clear indicator that most people are not looking into the future...so bringing up the future stuff as the main approach really does not seem to get good results.)

What people can relate to is that this life in the present is very hard and difficult and weighs very heavy...and when Christ offers to trade burdens for he says that his are light...it begins to lighten up the load in the present life. All people can agree that life can be difficult with all the hatred, discord, disunity in the home, jealousy, bitterness, violence and all the other baggage that life offers to those who do not set their mind on Jesus Christ...but when you can convince that by following Christ he begins to change your world right side up, changes hearts and minds and thought process, and begins to heal your world around you in the present time and that He can give you internal peace and joy and love....then you are beginning to show the benefits of godliness and not focusing so much on the daily grunt of life...why focus on the obvious...it is obvious that life outside of Christ's plan of living is the wrong way to go...sorry for not being so coherent as I am just typing away and think I may not be doing a good job at conveying my thoughts...in the end, what I want to say is that there are benefits in following Christ, HUGE BENEFITS, and to think not is really missing the wonderful life Christs offers to those who love him....let us magnify the wonderful life of Christianity for Jesus is the way, the truth and the LIFE!!! and he offers it more abunantly!!!

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the plane analogy, but what I think it fails to consider, and what should be given emphasis is that (well, for one thing, it refers to future events and after life...and this topic of after life is not something that most people living can truly relate to...it is pretty neat in theory but in practical terms, people are not thinking so much about the future....just a look how so many people fail to plan for retirement is clear indicator that most people are not looking into the future...so bringing up the future stuff as the main approach really does not seem to get good results.)

What people can relate to is that this life in the present is very hard and difficult and weighs very heavy...and when Christ offers to trade burdens for he says that his are light...it begins to lighten up the load in the present life. All people can agree that life can be difficult with all the hatred, discord, disunity in the home, jealousy, bitterness, violence and all the other baggage that life offers to those who do not set their mind on Jesus Christ...but when you can convince that by following Christ he begins to change your world right side up, changes hearts and minds and thought process, and begins to heal your world around you in the present time and that He can give you internal peace and joy and love....then you are beginning to show the benefits of godliness and not focusing so much on the daily grunt of life...why focus on the obvious...it is obvious that life outside of Christ's plan of living is the wrong way to go...sorry for not being so coherent as I am just typing away and think I may not be doing a good job at conveying my thoughts...in the end, what I want to say is that there are benefits in following Christ, HUGE BENEFITS, and to think not is really missing the wonderful life Christs offers to those who love him....let us magnify the wonderful life of Christianity for Jesus is the way, the truth and the LIFE!!! and he offers it more abunantly!!!

I think that you have bought into the modern day Gospel. Jesus is the token God, here to make you happy in the hear and now, not a saviour to take away your sins.

A few days ago, I was right there, so I can relate. I understand there are benefits, some peoples lives get better after coming to Jesus, some don't, some people are healed in coming to Jesus, some aren't.

The issue is not what I get, but what I get to give up, my sins.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by keith4him

I think that you have bought into the modern day Gospel. Jesus is the token God, here to make you happy in the hear and now, not a saviour to take away your sins.

A few days ago, I was right there, so I can relate. I understand there are benefits, some peoples lives get better after coming to Jesus, some don't, some people are healed in coming to Jesus, some aren't.

The issue is not what I get, but what I get to give up, my sins.

You act as if when we come to Jesus we live perfectly from the time we convert until we meet him in the clouds as if sins depart completely from our life (which this thinking can lead to the dangers of self-righteous living)...that they reduce significantly and that we are no longer dominated by that living is one thing, but common sense and Paul remind us that we have a war going on within us and the good we wish to do we dont do and the evil we wish to refrain from, this we keep on doing....even the "holy" Paul felt this way years after conversion and ministry. But, no, THANKS BE TO GOD FOR JESUS CHRIST who mediates for us and goes before the Father in our representation so that when God looks at us he does not see our own righteousness (for no body is righteous, no, not even one and we all fall short of the glory of God), rather he sees the righteousness of Jesus Christ which is imparted to us that believe and trust in the effective work of Jesus Christ at Calvary. That, my friend, is good news and is the Gospel of Jesus my Christ for his shed blood cleanses me and I live to love Him and bring glory to God.

That may be your issue and it sounds a bit self-centered as you focus on what you do, or what you trade or give up, as if you see any merit in it (this thinking is seen in all religions...what can I do to deserve my high places. "Should I walk up these steps on my knees?)....the issue for me is not that...the issue for me is on what He did and the life he offers me...

[SDG]

I think you guys agree on more than you think.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Ok I know he's Baptist or least that's my impression.

But this guy does have a revelation of the importance of repentance in the conversion process.

Listening to his series, I have both the book and his cd's/dvd, I can't believe that church has made the felt needs/friendship evangelism method the most primary way to reach sinners. Basically come to Jesus and your life will be better, happy and wonderful. Yes, God does bless us when we are apart of the kingdom. The door still remains repentance.

I agree with him in his observation that the church (larger corporate as we know it here in the states) has stopped or not used the Biblical facts that sinners are sinners and they better understand that before the really appreciate the grace of God.

I thought his teaching on false conversions was exceptional.

Any other observations thoughts about this his teaching from some of you in the know?

Keith, I have been screaming about this from the time of FCF to NFCF. Very few paid attention, and I suspect because he is not UPC and does not preach Acts 2:38

Despite that he has the RIGHT view of evangelism and repentance...one that many of us lack

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Very good stuff ... I've listened to this POWERFUL MESSAGE ... I'LL POST A LINK LATER W/ THE AUDIO.

He focuses also on evangelizing first w/ the Law, mainly the 10 commandments ... and then w/ the message of Grace ... He believes that the grace message is being trampled on because few really understand their sinful standing before God

He has an awesome website wayofthemaster.com and a TV show, co-hosted w/ Kirk Cameron, that teaches people how to evangelize. He also has an online bible institute that teaches evangelism methods.

I have 2 of his books ... that I am yet to read ...

Have posted the links many times before.
www.livingwaters.com
Also check out
http://www.transfired.org/
http://www.thegreatnews.com/
http://www.needgod.com/