Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLegalist
Calvinists... LOL
Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father — for everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him to have eternal life, and I will raise him up61 at the last day."62
so this sounds as if man has no part and man does nothing? It's God's fault then if we don't believe.... nice |
Legalist,
Maybe instead of guffawing you should actually read the whole thing. A Calvinist does not say that man has no part, but he only can do what he is enabled to do. He acts according to his ability to act. The issue, however, is not whether or not a man acts or has a part, but rather the issue is in the primary cause of his act or part. In other words unless he is first acted upon he will not participate or he will not believe.
Now look at the verse you pulled out of context. "For this is the will of my Father — for everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him to have eternal life, and I will raise him up61 at the last day" Now if read in context the category of people who will be raised up at the last day are the same category that Christ is talking about here..."But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."
There are those that see but yet do not believe. There are those that the Father gives to Christ which are not those who do not believe. So two categories. The category that is NOT given is the same category that does not believe, or else they would believe, therefore the group that is given is the group that believes, and this is the group that Christ will lose none of...but will raise them up at the last day. This is also the same group in verse 44 ""No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." This group is drawn, given, and raised up on the last day. The group that sees but yet does not believe is included in verse 61-65 "61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit[e] and they are life. 64Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."
So the group that is raised on the last day is the group that is given, and believes because, unlike the group that does not, has been enabled to do so.
That makes grace the primary cause working through faith to produce salvation...all of it being a gift that is given because of man's inability to accomplish any of these for himself, he being "dead in trespasses and sins."
As far as laying the accusation of "fault" at God's feet, read the argument Paul makes anticipating such a reaction in
Romans 9.
If I love whom I love, do we consider me guilty of hate when I don't love everybody in the same way with the same emotion. No. Then it's silly to accuse God of being guilty when He is choosing according to His will...or do we call His will unholy? Also, it is so apparent that there is differentiation in His love, especially when the text itself is quite explicit that there is such a differentiation between objects of His love and grace and objects of His wrath. In
John 6 He could give, i.e. He has the ability to do so, ALL those in verse 36 to Christ but for some reason He chooses not to. If He has the ability to do so, but does not, do you "fault" Him for that?
ouden
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