God's Grace, Love or Mercy will not SAVE you ...

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

God's grace does come at a cost. The ultimate cost and the price has been paid. In Christ sacrifice he not only paid for our sins but also did the work that must be accomplished to save us.

Yes, we do obey God's commandments and through the process of sanctification he will save those whom are his.

Some of you have a few commandments that you consider a prerequisite for new birth. Anybody can check off a list of things to do but when God does the work it is a perfect work.

Repent - easy enough, we have seen 1000s do the Pentecostal version of this only to never to be seen again.

Be Baptized - same as above. How many of these baptisimal tanks have we seen set up in parks and on the street and homeless people being "saved" because of their obedience only to once again never been seen or heard from again.

Baptized in the Holy Ghost - this is the hazing that every Christian has to go through in order to be received into the church. Usually, the music has to be loud, specially trained "altar workers" are brought in to coach people into receiving. Many stutter and stammer only to be told that they almost got it and to keep seeking. They are reminded that if they would only totally yield themselves to God or have real faith they will receive and speak in tongues. Remember, if you just completely submit yourself to God he will give it to you but only if you beg, cry, and wail hard enough.

Your obedience has been turned into a science by many and with just the right preaching and music and laying on of hand it can achieve by anybody.

Yep, sounds exactly like grace to me and exactly the obedience that God was talking about all throughout the bible.

By a judgment of deeds are we entered into eternal life or death. It's as simple as that. Your response in total will be your judged reward!

[TheLegalist]

Also a "judgment of deeds" negates a eschatological acquittal at simple faith/mental assent!

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

God's grace does come at a cost. The ultimate cost and the price has been paid. In Christ sacrifice he not only paid for our sins but also did the work that must be accomplished to save us.

Yes, we do obey God's commandments and through the process of sanctification he will save those whom are his.

Some of you have a few commandments that you consider a prerequisite for new birth. Anybody can check off a list of things to do but when God does the work it is a perfect work.

Repent - easy enough, we have seen 1000s do the Pentecostal version of this only to never to be seen again.

Be Baptized - same as above. How many of these baptisimal tanks have we seen set up in parks and on the street and homeless people being "saved" because of their obedience only to once again never been seen or heard from again.

Baptized in the Holy Ghost - this is the hazing that every Christian has to go through in order to be received into the church. Usually, the music has to be loud, specially trained "altar workers" are brought in to coach people into receiving. Many stutter and stammer only to be told that they almost got it and to keep seeking. They are reminded that if they would only totally yield themselves to God or have real faith they will receive and speak in tongues. Remember, if you just completely submit yourself to God he will give it to you but only if you beg, cry, and wail hard enough.

Your obedience has been turned into a science by many and with just the right preaching and music and laying on of hand it can achieve by anybody.

Yep, sounds exactly like grace to me and exactly the obedience that God was talking about all throughout the bible.

Great post and observation. The whole speaking in tongues thing has turned into a Religious circus. Jumping, loud music, yelling, coaching, begging, acting almost insane for a stammering lip.......goodness, what have we done to the Grace of God?

And then there's the counting. "We had a 150 get the Holy Ghost", like its some kind of competition. Not to mention, who's responsible for these head counts and can verify it was in fact "Tongues"?

God help us! Open our eyes! Our "Acts" experience isn't even close to what happend in the Book of Acts.

People can become so pressured at an Altar call, they will do anything to get the "Monkey" off their back.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

By a judgment of deeds are we entered into eternal life or death. It's as simple as that. Your response in total will be your judged reward!

But what deeds. Do you mean Acts 2:38?

The Apostolic movement doesn't have any deeds that I can see when compare to the rest of Christianity. I mean the Rotary Club does more to fulfill God's commands than most churches.

I am all about obeying God's commands but give me some idea of what his commands are.

Do you honestly think you do more than I in relation to following God's commands?

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Great post and observation. The whole speaking in tongues thing has turned into a Religious circus. Jumping, loud music, yelling, coaching, begging, acting almost insane for a stammering lip.......goodness, what have we done to the Grace of God?

And then there's the counting. "We had a 150 get the Holy Ghost", like its some kind of competition. Not to mention, who's responsible for these head counts and can verify it was in fact "Tongues"?

God help us! Open our eyes! Our "Acts" experience isn't even close to what happend in the Book of Acts.

People can become so pressured at an Altar call, they will do anything to get the "Monkey" off their back.

The smart ones claim they got the Holy Ghost driving down the road or at home in their living room to save the hazing.

I have had several people, since I have left the UPC, tell me that they just spoke in tongues because the people in my church wanted them to so bad that they felt sorry for the UPC folks that they did it. Another reason was that everyone started moving their way trying to lay hands on them and to end the weirdness they just spoke in tongues.

BTW, I came from a very nonspiritualist moderate UPC church.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

God's grace does come at a cost. The ultimate cost and the price has been paid. In Christ sacrifice he not only paid for our sins but also did the work that must be accomplished to save us.

Yes Christ obtained the ability to OFFER/GIFT salvation. We have a price to pay as well to obtain eternal life.

Yes, we do obey God's commandments and through the process of sanctification he will save those whom are his.

Sorry don't believe in this mindset. We are saved because of our response to the covenant and he will judge in the end. Sanctification is a very misapplied concept. Judgment is based upon known responsibility and response to what is required of the hearer from the start to the end. We are his as long as we abide.

Some of you have a few commandments that you consider a prerequisite for new birth. Anybody can check off a list of things to do but when God does the work it is a perfect work.

and your point? He does a work yes but the response is a must to continue in him or "abide". God has his check list and sees your response.

Repent - easy enough, we have seen 1000s do the Pentecostal version of this only to never to be seen again.

Nice try Billy Graham! That would be more the baptist isolate, not Pentecostals.

Be Baptized - same as above. How many of these baptisimal tanks have we seen set up in parks and on the street and homeless people being "saved" because of their obedience only to once again never been seen or heard from again.

So does this pathetic argument change what baptism is to the repentant?

Baptized in the Holy Ghost - this is the hazing that every Christian has to go through in order to be received into the church. Usually, the music has to be loud, specially trained "altar workers" are brought in to coach people into receiving. Many stutter and stammer only to be told that they almost got it and to keep seeking. They are reminded that if they would only totally yield themselves to God or have real faith they will receive and speak in tongues. Remember, if you just completely submit yourself to God he will give it to you but only if you beg, cry, and wail hard enough.

Yep, love the head hazers in Acts 8 coming down to put the smack down upon the believers that they would receive the HS. Yep! Def looked for something more than the Baptist... I just believe I received it(blind faith)... yep!

Your obedience has been turned into a science by many and with just the right preaching and music and laying on of hand it can achieve by anybody.

No god started the science of what it is long before us. He is the one giving principle to live by and defining it.

Yep, sounds exactly like grace to me and exactly the obedience that God was talking about all throughout the bible.

You, from your writings in total teach a reformed doctrine which is heretical as it gets. Least to say the view of grace many teach is a warped doctrine.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Have not listened to it nor probably will as I never cared to listen to him anyway but YOU have little to talk about of being far from the gospel. When you negate baptism and what it is. That is about as far from truth as one can get. Also Grace,Mercy and Love won't save by themselves! It takes you as well.

Creative reading, I have lost count of the number of times Alicea has said ON THIS FORUM, that baptism in Jesus' Name is a commandment and not a suggestion.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

But what deeds. Do you mean Acts 2:38?

The Apostolic movement doesn't have any deeds that I can see when compare to the rest of Christianity. I mean the Rotary Club does more to fulfill God's commands than most churches.

I am all about obeying God's commands but give me some idea of what his commands are.

Do you honestly think you do more than I in relation to following God's commands?

don't know... truth is truth no matter my response to it or not. I have already explained the concept on the first few pages....scan those.

Acts 2:38 is talking about coming into covenant not the life of a Christian. sheesh

[jfrog]

Just wondering... is it a sin Legalist to not say grace over a meal?

[Praxeas]

I don't remember where, but I heard him preach this too