The Legalist on Covenant

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

What in the world are you talking about. All have sinned. sheesh Who a is arguing against that. Abraham OBEYED God's commandment. IT SAYS THAT! God said walk blameless. How about...

Luk 1:6 They21 were both righteous in the sight of God, following22 all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blamelessly.23

Sins AND righteousness are no more remembered when a person turns one way or the other.

Eze 18:21 "But if the wicked person turns from all the sin he has committed and observes all my statutes and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
Eze 18:22 None of the sins he has committed will be held30 against him; because of the righteousness he has done, he will live.
Eze 18:23 Do I actually delight in the death of the wicked, declares the sovereign LORD? Do I not prefer that he turn from his wicked conduct and live?
Eze 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and practices wrongdoing according to all the abominable practices the wicked carry out, will he live? All his righteous acts will not be remembered; because of the unfaithful acts he has done and the sin he has committed, he will die.31
Eze 18:25 "Yet you say, 'The Lord's conduct32 is unjust!' Hear, O house of Israel: Is my conduct unjust? Is it not your conduct that is unjust?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous person turns back from his righteousness and practices wrongdoing, he will die for it;33 because of the wrongdoing he has done, he will die.
Eze 18:27 When a wicked person turns from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he will preserve his life.
Eze 18:28 Because he considered34 and turned from all the sins he had done, he will surely live; he will not die.
Eze 18:29 Yet the house of Israel says, 'The Lord's conduct is unjust!' Is my conduct unjust, O house of Israel? Is it not your conduct that is unjust?
Eze 18:30 "Therefore I will judge each person according to his conduct,35 O house of Israel, declares the sovereign LORD. Repent36 and turn from all your wickedness; then it will not be an obstacle leading to iniquity.37
Eze 18:31 Throw away all your sins you have committed and fashion yourselves a new heart and a new spirit!38 Why should you die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I take no delight in the death of anyone,39 declares the sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

So, those men sinned but could be called blameless because God no longer remembered their sins. This was before Christ too. I guess all mankind didn't need a savior after all. I mean we clearly see in Ezekiel that God could and would forgive sin before Christ. So what did his death really accomplish?

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by jfrog

So, those men sinned but could be called blameless because God no longer remembered their sins. This was before Christ too. I guess all mankind didn't need a savior after all. I mean we clearly see in Ezekiel that God could and would forgive sin before Christ. So what did his death really accomplish?

jfrog... good Q. His death brought about the ability to pass ETERNAL judgment. I dealt with this somewhere on here once.... not sure where. The point is. All forgivenes pointed to the promise of the future. All forgiveness is based upon trusting and turning to God and do his will. In that his sins are remembered no more. God in the end will judge those faithful based on there response to him or unfaithful for lack of. When they sacrificed in the OT.... yes it was for atonement. It was what God required as stipulation to such forgiveness. Did it in the whole sense of eternal judgment take away sin? No! Jesus would acquire that by his sacrifice. Jesus obtained/purchased all power and authority to judge and pass judgment. Thus his sacrifice was how he obtained such authority. Which is why he stands as authority between God and man. RIGHTEOUSNESS and PENALTY. We all sinned which is why I say penalty for man. The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. He becomes judge and his judment has authority by his grace(sacrifice).
As Ezekial says that your response in turning to God does what

Eze 18:21 "But if the wicked person turns from all the sin he has committed and observes all my statutes and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.

Eze 18:22 None of the sins he has committed will be held against him; because of the righteousness he has done, he will live.

We see this same thing in the NC. If we turn and do the will of God we are not UNDER LAW.. WHy? To be "under law" is a reference to penalty of said law. In the NC we have penalty also which is the same principle off being cutoff. The Spirit does not lead you into lawlessness. Thus by having a heart turned TOTALY your heart is not at enmity. WHY?... because you turning your heart in WHOLE is a righteous deed or act on your part. Also "under law" has many different ways it can be taken. We are under law all the time but in other context we are not. When you are in covenant with God. You are in this situation to do his commandments and laws. God sees your righteous response and YOU LIVE AGAIN! As now you are not at enmity of heart which God cannot forgive and cannot work with, thus you are cut off by your own actions and dead. You love the flesh more than him. Turn to him and you live.

In the end God will judge you cold, lukewarm, or hot. He will judge you faithful or slothful. Procedures change but the principle behind them never does. Which is why the question from ADINO of well are you condemned if you sin... and does the Spirit still dwell with you if you sin. I see those issues only because he has certain context to... condemned that I don't agree with. We are not condemend until death and judgment. Are we right before God when we sin? No! As our heart at that point is toward teh flesh and not him. Thus at enmity. Is God dwelling in us or do we "retain" the Spirit? I am not sure our interaction is directly a dwelling in the way many mean. God dwells in our hearts by faith. Which means we hear his Word thus we live on the very Word of God. Where is word is honored there he is. We live by


Mat 4:4 But he answered,4 "It is written, 'Man 5 does not live 6 by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.' "

Notice the above verse clearly has reference to Eze 18:21-22 which I posted above...

Thus unless we are in active submission and response to his Word we technically are cold/dead to him. We deny his Word in our life. Until we turn to him and do his Word which is Faith we are dead. The Spirit is always searching our hearts before or after we are saved seeking to lead us. So does God technically ever leave? Not really but that is my point of what is meant by dwell.

[Sam]

If I understand Roman Catholic doctrine correctly,
1 water baptism is the birth of water spoken of in John 3:5 if applied properly
2 water baptism remits/forgives/washes away sin

Any sin after baptism is forgiven by confession/repentance

There is only one true church which has an unbroken history from St. Peter until the present and we must remain in a state of grace and submission to the leadership of that church to remain saved

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Sam

If I understand Roman Catholic doctrine correctly,
1 water baptism is the birth of water spoken of in John 3:5 if applied properly
2 water baptism remits/forgives/washes away sin

Any sin after baptism is forgiven by confession/repentance

There is only one true church which has an unbroken history from St. Peter until the present and we must remain in a state of grace and submission to the leadership of that church to remain saved

problem is they place the "act" itself as the isolated component at baptism. Baptism means nothing without the turning of the heart which results in a acceptable price for covenant with him in baptism. Baptism is our trust placed in the working of God. It simply the appointed time. Turning to God is always the key to forgiveness. Baptism just happens to be part of the initial component of coming into covenant. Catholics believe it is the ONLY component thus a ritual to earn. Major difference.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sam

If I understand Roman Catholic doctrine correctly,
1 water baptism is the birth of water spoken of in John 3:5 if applied properly
2 water baptism remits/forgives/washes away sin

In contrast with the Apostolic view:

This is from an article titled “The Blood Covenant” by Howard A. Goss which appeared in the June 1954 Pentecostal Herald, pages 6 and 10. Howard Goss was the first General Superintendent of the United Pentecostal Church and served in that office from 1945-1951.


... repentance brings the blood of Jesus to a sinner’s heart to wipe out and cleanse him from all sin, he should then be baptized in water as a confession of his faith in the atonement...

When a sinner fully repents and confesses before God, the blood of Jesus atones for his sins , and cleanses his heart from all sin, and when he is clean then only is he a fit subject for water baptism. After that comes the promise “…you shall receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost…” (Acts 2:38)

The blood and power of the Lord Jesus is the only source of regeneration or the New Birth. Water baptism alone has no power to remit sins, else we could baptize infants as do the Catholics. The Roman Catholic teaches regeneration by water baptism, but it is not according to the Word of God. A candidate for baptism in water should be baptized BECAUSE THE BLOOD has cleansed, remitted, forgiven his sins, and not in order to get them remitted, as WATER ALONE CANNOT WASH AWAY SINS. The old hymn goes:
What can wash away my sins,
Nothing but the Blood of Jesus.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

problem is they place the "act" itself as the isolated component at baptism. Baptism means nothing with the turning of the heart which results in a acceptable price for covenant with him in baptism. Baptism is our trust placed in the working of God. It simply the appointed time. Turning to God is always the key to forgiveness. Baptism just happens to be part of the initial component of coming into covenant. Catholics believe it is the ONLY component thus a ritual to earn. Major difference.

I just don't understand why people just don't believe what the bible says.

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I just don't understand why people just don't believe what the bible says.

This is true...Simple...Repent....Be Baptized in Jesus Name...and be filled with the Holy Ghost....I agree...

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I just don't understand why people just don't believe what the bible says.

I hope you understand I still believe baptism is the point of forgiveness of sin as that is the time of covenant. Thus Acts 2:38 has repentance and baptism as the components for remission of sins. Baptism is the appointed time in which covenant is created and the working of God (circumcision) is made because he has offered salvation and you have offered your life in return. Thus sins wiped away.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by revrandy

This is true...Simple...Repent....Be Baptized in Jesus Name...and be filled with the Holy Ghost....I agree...

I've done that.

On Monday March 28, 1955 I asked Jesus Christ to come into my life and I turned my life over to Him. He accepted my invitation and came in to dwell in my heart. I became a new creation.

On Thursday, October 27, 1955 I was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ because my sins had been forgiven/remitted.

On Pentecost Sunday, May 20, 1956 I was baptized in the Holy Spirit.

The way I understand the Bible, I was justified/saved/born again on March 28, 1955. Baptism in Jesus' name was walking in light but not part of being saved. The Holy Ghost Baptism was receiving the Promise of the Father for increased strength and anointing from the Lord.

If anyone here believes those three separate experiences that took place over a period of a little over a year and in three separate towns makes up a "one baptism" and a "one rebirth" I will not argue and I will respect your opinion as a brother or sister in the Lord.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

problem is they place the "act" itself as the isolated component at baptism. Baptism means nothing without the turning of the heart which results in a acceptable price for covenant with him in baptism. Baptism is our trust placed in the working of God. It simply the appointed time. Turning to God is always the key to forgiveness. Baptism just happens to be part of the initial component of coming into covenant. Catholics believe it is the ONLY component thus a ritual to earn. Major difference.

Sounds like Luther's response to the RCC.