This is definitely a discussion that needs to take place. It is ignorant for anyone be it military or civilian to think otherwise. What occurred at Ft. Hood, hit very close to home for me; being a mil-spouse. When one joins the armed forces they are not ignorant to the fact they will probably at some point in their military career in a war against another sovereign nation. If one has any inhibitions about that then they should not enlist in the armed forces. Many people join for the educational benefits or no other means of employment. Well when one joins for those reason they assume all the risks and responsibilities that come along with such a commitment. It is also asked if the person enlisting has any religious reasons that would preclude them from fulfilling their duties in the armed forces. Even for those that are Christian's have to ask themselves if they are okay with serving for religious reasons. Namely, thou shalt not kill. However, God is a god of war. So, this discussion must be addressed across the board. Thoroughly questioning people that want to enlist should be done. For example, there are those that are in gangs that join the Army and Marines to learn combat fighting. There are serious problems that need to be addressed. What happened at Fort Hood is unfortunate and quite sickening, but on the other hand this incident has in my opinion forced people to take a pause and forget about political correctness and address the issues of the war that our nation is fighting. As we can see those we are fighting will stop at nothing to attack our country.
I've been saying this for years and I know some of you guys have too. But this is where it started. This happened in Lebanon. It happened to the Romans. It's happening right now in Britain. We already lost. We already lost because we have a government that has their heads in their rear ends metaphorically speaking.
They KNEW this guy was bad....the Feds had tracked emails from him to a radical cleric. They did nothing...fear
They KNEW he was a loose canon spouting off about the war and stuff...they did nothing...fear.
What are we afraid of? Offending someone. Offending Muslims. They come to our Nation knowing what it is and what it is about. Recently a man ran over his daughter because she was too "western"....he is a devout muslim. They KNEW what American culture was like before arriving. What they want is to change America. Make it Islamic.
That is their goal, always has been, to make the entire world Islamic. Some nations they take over in a bloody jihad. But others they take over by immigration and then appealing to the liberals to change laws and accommodate them, rather than them conforming to their new nation, culture and laws
Rome lost. It was a great nation. It lost because of political corruption. It lost because of immorality and it lost because of invading armies...some of which were origianlly welcomed into the nation as cheap labor and warriors. They learned how to fight by the Romans and then they fought against the Romans.
Britain has a HUGE islamic population and many of them are radicalized.
Lebanon was a Christian nation. They took in a lot of islamic refugees and offered them to become a part of their nation and government. Today Lebanon is not a Christian nation. They are a minority and there are a lot of islamic radicles there. It all started with appeasement.
Our immigration policies. Our liberal appeasement...Our fear of offending...all that stuff is the greatest Trojan horse...we have an enemy within. Feds have been warning of home grown terrorism and we have caught many here in the states planning on terrorist acts. They are all Islamic.
People want to misdirect and say Christians have done this or that, that is just another part of the whole danger that will leave our nation in ruins. Rather than face reality and look at the problem we try to avoid it by misdirection. All terrorism, all religious radicalism that leads to violance needs to be stopped, but right not the greatest thread in numbers is not Christian radicals but Islamic
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I've been saying this for years and I know some of you guys have too. But this is where it started. This happened in Lebanon. It happened to the Romans. It's happening right now in Britain. We already lost. We already lost because we have a government that has their heads in their rear ends metaphorically speaking.
They KNEW this guy was bad....the Feds had tracked emails from him to a radical cleric. They did nothing...fear
They KNEW he was a loose canon spouting off about the war and stuff...they did nothing...fear.
What are we afraid of? Offending someone. Offending Muslims. They come to our Nation knowing what it is and what it is about. Recently a man ran over his daughter because she was too "western"....he is a devout muslim. They KNEW what American culture was like before arriving. What they want is to change America. Make it Islamic.
That is their goal, always has been, to make the entire world Islamic. Some nations they take over in a bloody jihad. But others they take over by immigration and then appealing to the liberals to change laws and accommodate them, rather than them conforming to their new nation, culture and laws
Rome lost. It was a great nation. It lost because of political corruption. It lost because of immorality and it lost because of invading armies...some of which were origianlly welcomed into the nation as cheap labor and warriors. They learned how to fight by the Romans and then they fought against the Romans.
Britain has a HUGE islamic population and many of them are radicalized.
Lebanon was a Christian nation. They took in a lot of islamic refugees and offered them to become a part of their nation and government. Today Lebanon is not a Christian nation. They are a minority and there are a lot of islamic radicles there. It all started with appeasement.
Our immigration policies. Our liberal appeasement...Our fear of offending...all that stuff is the greatest Trojan horse...we have an enemy within. Feds have been warning of home grown terrorism and we have caught many here in the states planning on terrorist acts. They are all Islamic.
People want to misdirect and say Christians have done this or that, that is just another part of the whole danger that will leave our nation in ruins. Rather than face reality and look at the problem we try to avoid it by misdirection. All terrorism, all religious radicalism that leads to violance needs to be stopped, but right not the greatest thread in numbers is not Christian radicals but Islamic
QUOTE=Praxeas;832906 I've been saying this for years and I know some of you guys have too. But this is where it started. This happened in Lebanon. It happened to the Romans. It's happening right now in Britain. We already lost. We already lost because we have a government that has their heads in their rear ends metaphorically speaking.
They KNEW this guy was bad....the Feds had tracked emails from him to a radical cleric. They did nothing...fear
They KNEW he was a loose canon spouting off about the war and stuff...they did nothing...fear. This is what being politically correct does. The Army should be ashamed right now for not taking the concerns of those soldiers serious.
What are we afraid of? Offending someone. Offending Muslims. They come to our Nation knowing what it is and what it is about. Recently a man ran over his daughter because she was too "western"....he is a devout muslim. They KNEW what American culture was like before arriving. What they want is to change America. Make it Islamic. I heard about this story. About two years ago I was listening to a show on the radio and they were having a discussion about this very thing. There has been a dramatic increase of these "honor" killings in the U.S.
That is their goal, always has been, to make the entire world Islamic. Some nations they take over in a bloody jihad. But others they take over by immigration and then appealing to the liberals to change laws and accommodate them, rather than them conforming to their new nation, culture and laws
Rome lost. It was a great nation. It lost because of political corruption. It lost because of immorality and it lost because of invading armies...some of which were origianlly welcomed into the nation as cheap labor and warriors. They learned how to fight by the Romans and then they fought against the Romans.
Britain has a HUGE islamic population and many of them are radicalized.
Lebanon was a Christian nation. They took in a lot of islamic refugees and offered them to become a part of their nation and government. Today Lebanon is not a Christian nation. They are a minority and there are a lot of islamic radicles there. It all started with appeasement.
Our immigration policies. Our liberal appeasement...Our fear of offending...all that stuff is the greatest Trojan horse...we have an enemy within. Feds have been warning of home grown terrorism and we have caught many here in the states planning on terrorist acts. They are all Islamic.
The immigration policies of the US are honestly a joke. We've got people becoming US citizens, yet, have no desire to live in our country. I shouldn't even discuss the issue because then I get too upset and have to go pray. You know that whole be angry and sin not scripture.
People want to misdirect and say Christians have done this or that, that is just another part of the whole danger that will leave our nation in ruins. Rather than face reality and look at the problem we try to avoid it by misdirection. All terrorism, all religious radicalism that leads to violance needs to be stopped, but right not the greatest thread in numbers is not Christian radicals but Islamic You ain't neva lied
I was having a discussion in another place about whether there are legitimate conflicts that an American soldier with Arabic and Muslim backgrounds would have that we need to take into consideration. Disclaimer: I know some on AFF so let me just get this out of the way: I am not in any way looking to defend, minimize, or justify the shootings at Fort Hood or any other type of attack like this.
However, I do think that there is sufficient enough legitimate concern to look into it. Here is a post I made in that discussion:
I think it is something to consider. I would imagine that we would have conflicted soldiers who are practicing Jews if we were ever fighting against Isreal. The issue is that not only is it an ethnic connection, but a religious one as well. Both of those can be powerful connections.
When you factor in that, like in all wars, there are innocent casualties and that many people are conflicted about our right to be involved in some of the situations and our blanket support of Isreal, I think it is a discussion that needs to be had.
Those are important considerations in my opinion. However the United States was founded as a secular state. Everyone is free to worship as they see fit, however everyone is expected to also see the importance of the common good. There are also Conscientious Objector classifications that protect those who are morally opposed to war.
I'd say, think very carefully before you join the all volunteer U.S. Armed Forces. No one has to serve.
Also, for Muslims the "I can't kill fellow Muslims" argument is pretty weak. Name one Muslim nation that has not sent it's forces onto the field of battle to do war with fellow Muslims.
From that standpoint alone we aren't asking Muslim volunteers to do anything that their fellow Muslims haven't required, even demanded them to do at the tip of a sword for the last almost 1,400 years.
Far, far more Muslim blood has been shed by fellow Muslims than by all of the armies of the world combined. And that includes the grandsons of Genghis Khan who tried to kill every Muslim on the planet - until they met up with their cousin who had converted.
This is what being politically correct does. The Army should be ashamed right now for not taking the concerns of those soldiers serious.
To be fair to the Army investigators, they may not have had all the information that the FBI had gathered, and vice versa.
Makes you wonder too, how many "innocent" and nonviolent people have tripped similar alarms in the system? Trying to predict who is going to go off and start shooting is easy when you're doing it in hindsight. Trying to predict human behavior is a whole lot tougher.
To be fair to the Army investigators, they may not have had all the information that the FBI had gathered, and vice versa.
Makes you wonder too, how many "innocent" and nonviolent people have tripped similar alarms in the system? Trying to predict who is going to go off and start shooting is easy when you're doing it in hindsight. Trying to predict human behavior is a whole lot tougher.
but, you'd think they would have all the information. What in the world is happening when the FBI knows something about a guy in the military that the military should know about but does not tell them...
Can you say ABLE DANGER all over again?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Because of this and other incidents, were I in the military, I would request out of a unit that included a Muslim, or refuse orders that would place me near any Muslim.
If that's wrong, oh well. People need to wake up and see the war for what it really is.
All I'm saying is that I think that this is a reality and, like most other realities, should not be ignored. I'm not talking about what I think should be the case or what would be the case in a perfect world. The issue with this series of wars is that many Americans of all race and creeds question whether we should be there and whether we are handling things fairly. I'm just saying that this is likely multiplied within those who relate more closely to those in the Middle East than we do. Once again, I point out that I think the same conflicts would exist if we were in Israel fighting wars that many people did not think was clearly justified. As a matter of fact, I would imagine that many Christian Americans would be conflicted about fighting against Israel because of their religious beliefs regardless of what oath they took.
Conservative estimates put civilian death in Iraq at over 100,000 and civilian deaths in Afghanistan at over 10,000 and possibly 20,000.
I already know the standard "civilian deaths are a part of war", but to think that that would not create personal conflict is naive in my opinion.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
The issue with this series of wars is that many Americans of all race and creeds question whether we should be there and whether we are handling things fairly.
Outside of the Muslim or Jewish issue on combat or service, this point you made here is probably the biggest issue of all! A religious war at the heart of the matter - can we win it?!
Quote:
As a matter of fact, I would imagine that many Christian Americans would be conflicted about fighting against Israel because of their religious beliefs regardless of what oath they took.
That is a valid point, Stew. Sometimes I'm conflicted on that issue, especially after reading so much in the Jerusalem Post. Makes you wonder about the people there. LOL!
Quote:
Conservative estimates put civilian death in Iraq at over 100,000 and civilian deaths in Afghanistan at over 10,000 and possibly 20,000. I already know the standard "civilian deaths are a part of war", but to think that that would not create personal conflict is naive in my opinion.
I've thought of that as well. There is so much political maneuvering that it's hard to grasp the sense, fairness or efficiency of it.
I talked to a guy in the armed forces a couple of weekends ago. He said they need to bring the troops home and take care of what is going on here on American soil more than anything else right now.
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