Local Church BODY

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Yes, he does speak through others in the body. We are all the ministry. We all need to be perfected and equipped. I am not arguing against the need for accountability or teaching through others. I am disagree with the clergy/laity seperation that is so prevelant in the Apostolic church.

You believe everyone is in the fivefold ministry, which was specifically designated by God for perfecting the saints?

God made that distinction, not me.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

You believe everyone is in the fivefold ministry, which was specifically designated by God for perfecting the saints?

God made that distinction, not me.

Perfecting and equipping them to work in the ministry and build up the body of Christ. It's like a cycle. Someone helped build you up and equipped you, so that you can build up and equip others.

I know what I was taught. That the ministry is better and more spiritual and therefore above us poor schlubs. But I believe that the same God that sames there is no slave or free, male female, greek or jew, did not intend us to create our own hierachy. Don't you see the whole catholic connection?

I just realized that I was only a few steps away from referring to Pastors as mini-popes. But I am no PT I assure you! I do not think that it would be appropriate for someone wearing a tube top and hotpants to sing on the platform!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Perfecting and equipping them to work in the ministry and build up the body of Christ. It's like a cycle. Someone helped build you up and equipped you, so that you can build up and equip others.

I know what I was taught. That the ministry is better and more spiritual and therefore above us poor schlubs. But I believe that the same God that sames there is no slave or free, male female, greek or jew, did not intend us to create our own hierachy. Don't you see the whole catholic connection?

I just realized that I was only a few steps away from referring to Pastors as mini-popes. But I am no PT I assure you! I do not think that it would be appropriate for someone wearing a tube top and hotpants to sing on the platform!

No one said anything about better or more spiritual or above.

But there is a difference of roles.

Read the passage in question in Ephesians where God gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints.

There is a distinction of role and function between the fivefold ministry and the saints.

Deal with the Scripture, Sister, that's all I'm asking.

[Michael The Disciple]

Steve,

My point is this. The Church spoken of by Paul was the pillar and ground of the TRUTH. It is the place where the truth abides. The reason I do not attend one of the local Churches is NOT because someone abused me and hurt my itty bitty feelings over something. It is not because I seek to keep secret sin.

It is because they teach deceptions such as pre trib rapture. Or Woman Pastors. Or men with beards are less holy than those without. Or Women going to Hell because they have long hair but may trim. Or you cannot cease from sin. You know, the usual stuff taught in many "Churches".

It is obedience to the truth that keeps me at distance from them.

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Perfecting and equipping them to work in the ministry and build up the body of Christ. It's like a cycle. Someone helped build you up and equipped you, so that you can build up and equip others.

I know what I was taught. That the ministry is better and more spiritual and therefore above us poor schlubs. But I believe that the same God that sames there is no slave or free, male female, greek or jew, did not intend us to create our own hierachy. Don't you see the whole catholic connection?

I just realized that I was only a few steps away from referring to Pastors as mini-popes. But I am no PT I assure you! I do not think that it would be appropriate for someone wearing a tube top and hotpants to sing on the platform!

Seems like this forum is full of preacher haters and those who will not submit to authority.

[Malvaro]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Seems like this forum is full of preacher haters and those who will not submit to authority.

submission to authority (in general) is an unpopular message in today's culture.... the necessity of it is certainly a Biblical principle though....

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Malvaro

submission to authority (in general) is an unpopular message in today's culture.... the necessity of it is certainly a Biblical principle though....

Agree. People in general don't want any one or any thing to tell them what to do.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

No one said anything about better or more spiritual or above.

But there is a difference of roles.

Read the passage in question in Ephesians where God gave apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints.

There is a distinction of role and function between the fivefold ministry and the saints.

Deal with the Scripture, Sister, that's all I'm asking.

I did read it! I read it in about 14 diferent versions before answering your post!

I have to say though, it is almost impossible for me to debate this with you, because I respect you and unlike some others (*Cough Wholehearted Cough*) it bothers me that you think I am some crazy scripture-ignoring rebellious backslider.

But, I spent the last few years trying to convince myself that I believed stuff that I didn't, for fear of disappointing people. And that didn't work well for me. I don't claim to have all the answers, and I am pretty honest about the fact that all this is my opinion. My question is this...why is it of less value than anyone elses opinion? What makes your opinion of more value? Or Bro. Epley's or Aceton or Wholehearted or Pastor Poster or MOW's or RRFord's or IAm's or Steadfast, or the Pastor of the church I occasionally attend.

All the stuff that you guys teach, all your preaching, what it boils down to, is just your opinion of what the Word of God says. So what makes your opinion better or worse than Epley's? What makes MOW's opinion better or worse than yours? What makes Atalanta Bishop's better or worse than MOW's? You get what I am saying? Only God's opinion is right. And the rest of us....full of hot air.

[Malvaro]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Agree. People in general don't want any one or any thing to tell them what to do.

certainly not a pastor, who may get up in their business....

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Seems like this forum is full of preacher haters and those who will not submit to authority.

I don't hate anyone! Certainly not preachers or pastors or anyone else, even you

And I do submit to authority. I just don't necessarily recognize as authority the same offices that you do. But I submit to the goverment, to the police, to my Boss.