What's the difference?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

Lol, figures you two would be first in on that

1."It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: [5] Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. [6] Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. [7] Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more." If that fits you then, drink up!

I am neither king nor prince, I do manage things so - liquid lunch would be a bad idea, as is noted in this scriptire. I have a heavy heart by times, so I will take that portion and say no where did it say drink is a sin. It is good advice that those that use judgement in the ecercise of their position should not do so under its influence. So my occasional tip of a glass is just fine.

2.So two wrongs makes it right for you to drink. still wrong.
Since I do not see that moderate use of something that was also part of a miracle performed by Jesus, is wrong, that is not my arguement at all. Rather in the spirit of motes and beams in eyes, some fat guy in a suit and clean shaven, will consume great amounts of food, yet feel justified to call me a sinner......cause he is a preacher and all.

This does not negate the fact your a sinner....that is "if" you are a sinner desiring to consume alcoholic beverages.

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

[/B]

This does not negate the fact your a sinner....that is "if" you are a sinner desiring to consume alcoholic beverages.

So you are saying alcohol consumption is a sin.

I do not beleive this.

We can disagree for 40 pages but this will likely change no ones mind.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

So you are saying alcohol consumption is a sin.

I do not beleive this.

We can disagree for 40 pages but this will likely change no ones mind.

You are free to be deceived and unwise and drink as much as you like.
Proverbs 20:1 wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

scripture is not on your side in this matter. no matter what you believe or dont believe.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

No one even said the word sin not my pastor or anyone about beards. So..

And no one said it was a sin to drink, but it's is unprofitable, and worldly so there's that. But hey "drink and be merry for tommorow you die", the new hit song from Young Jeezy. Hey Y.O.L.O. right?

Having this conversation with you and Mr song book is also unprofitable.. So it profits me as much as drinking so I might as well cut it.. lol

LOL

I wouldn't say that it is entirely unprofitable. It allows the readers to see how brothers in the Lord can have a disagreement, express why and where they disagree, and maintain the bonds of fellowship.

I don't believe alcohol is all that profitable either. Red wine has some health benefits, but those benefits aren't exclusively restricted to red wine. Drunkenness should always be denounced and guarded against. But, I wouldn't call consumption of wine "worldly". Wine has been a part of human life throughout Scripture. And even "strong drink" in some contexts. I think moderation and discretion is key. If one cannot control their alcohol consumption, they shouldn't partake in it.

I believe there is room for individual conscience on the matter. I believe that the Lord would hold far greater offense at division and unwarranted denunciation within the body over alcohol than alcohol itself.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

[/B]

This does not negate the fact your a sinner....that is "if" you are a sinner desiring to consume alcoholic beverages.

Consuming alcohol doesn't make one a "sinner". The abuse of alcohol, sex, food, even money is sin. However, nothing about these things in and of themselves is sin in proper context and moderation. It is the abuse of such things that reveals a deeper problem within the heart of man.

Matthew 15:11
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Mark 7:15
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Romans 14:14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Romans 14:19-22
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Consuming alcohol doesn't make one a "sinner". The abuse of alcohol, sex, food, even money is sin. However, nothing about these things in and of themselves is sin in proper context and moderation. It is the abuse of such things that reveals a deeper problem within the heart of man.

Matthew 15:11
Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Mark 7:15
There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

Romans 14:14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Romans 14:19-22
19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

in what context is beer, jack Daniels, crown royal, tequila, and wine not sin if consumed by someone called a saint?

[Wilsonwas]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

You are free to be deceived and unwise and drink as much as you like.
Proverbs 20:1 wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

scripture is not on your side in this matter. no matter what you believe or dont believe.

Reading that scripture I see no prohibition.

I do see an admonition to not allow deception because a condition of overconsumption may indeed dull your judgement. I agree completely that allowing it fo cloud your judgement - making you have an unwise choice.

This scripture is not on anyone's "side", it is instructional and edifying, not a command.

Many things are debated here, cutting ladies hair, facial hair, TV, entertainment outside the home, clothing.

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments ",

Find me a command, not a debatable single verse, out of context that prohibits a drink or two. Not verses that caution regarding use, or condemn the abuser. One adds to scripture "laying on burdens", when one uses verses that caution to be wise, to equate all actions regarding the subject to be on par with "Thou shalt / shalt not"

I have heard elders berate a man for not having enough control of his house, because the wife bought something without asking. In direct counterdiction of the good wife description in Proberbs - where she buys a vinyard to profit the household on her own.

Seems some want to promote Wesleyan holiness standards concieved of by Trinitarians, and "good ol 'merican values, to the level of scripture. Most often this is so they can sing out something on the order of, "we dont drink, or smoke or chew, and we dont run with the girls that do......or similar crud.

Pharasitical mess - to me.

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

in what context is beer, jack Daniels, crown royal, tequila, and wine not sin if consumed by someone called a saint?

In the same context as Ruth Chris Western Sizzlen Shoneys Taco Bell and Mcdonalds

[JoeBandy]

Originally Posted by Wilsonwas

Reading that scripture I see no prohibition.

I do see an admonition to not allow deception because a condition of overconsumption may indeed dull your judgement. I agree completely that allowing it fo cloud your judgement - making you have an unwise choice.

This scripture is not on anyone's "side", it is instructional and edifying, not a command.

Many things are debated here, cutting ladies hair, facial hair, TV, entertainment outside the home, clothing.

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments ",

Find me a command, not a debatable single verse, out of context that prohibits a drink or two. Not verses that caution regarding use, or condemn the abuser. One adds to scripture "laying on burdens", when one uses verses that caution to be wise, to equate all actions regarding the subject to be on par with "Thou shalt / shalt not"

I have heard elders berate a man for not having enough control of his house, because the wife bought something without asking. In direct counterdiction of the good wife description in Proberbs - where she buys a vinyard to profit the household on her own.

Seems some want to promote Wesleyan holiness standards concieved of by Trinitarians, and "good ol 'merican values, to the level of scripture. Most often this is so they can sing out something on the order of, "we dont drink, or smoke or chew, and we dont run with the girls that do......or similar crud.

Pharasitical mess - to me.

yep what he said

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

in what context is beer, jack Daniels, crown royal, tequila, and wine not sin if consumed by someone called a saint?

As long as one doesn't drink unto drunkenness, or in front of a weaker brother, there is no "sin".

Although, the drinks you specifically named are drinks that are very strong. I'd not recommend them without also recommending caution.

Did God encourage "sin"???

Deuteronomy 14:24-27 English Standard Version (ESV)
24 And if the way is too long for you, so that you are not able to carry the tithe, when the Lord your God blesses you, because the place is too far from you, which the Lord your God chooses, to set his name there, 25 then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses 26 and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household. 27 And you shall not neglect the Levite who is within your towns, for he has no portion or inheritance with you.