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06-11-2009, 08:39 AM
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Still Figuring It Out.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
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Re: Miranda Rights for High-Level "Combatants"
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Originally Posted by Praxeas
Those rules are for Americans though. The Miranda is for Americans.
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The Miranda is for people in the American court system.
If someone illegally crosses the border from Mexico to the US and they are arrested, while they are not Americans, they still have the same rights because they have been brought into our legal system and those rights are available to every one who is brought into that legal system.
They might not be Americans. But we are. So we afford those rights to those who are in our legal system.
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06-11-2009, 10:50 AM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Miranda Rights for High-Level "Combatants"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
The Miranda is for people in the American court system.
If someone illegally crosses the border from Mexico to the US and they are arrested, while they are not Americans, they still have the same rights because they have been brought into our legal system and those rights are available to every one who is brought into that legal system.
They might not be Americans. But we are. So we afford those rights to those who are in our legal system.
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Actually you don't have the same rights at border crossings and the areas surrounding them. Not even America citizens have the same rights. Border crossings are a recognized exception which is a great argument for why we should not be applying our laws to the battlefield.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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06-11-2009, 10:55 AM
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Still Figuring It Out.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
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Re: Miranda Rights for High-Level "Combatants"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
Actually you don't have the same rights at border crossings and the areas surrounding them. Not even America citizens have the same rights. Border crossings are a recognized exception which is a great argument for why we should not be applying our laws to the battlefield.
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This particular Mexican national that I was speaking about in my example made it 127 miles from the border before being caught.
What you state is totally true... and totally crazy.
Over 1/2 of the US population lives within 100 miles of our borders and rights are reduced in this zone.
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06-11-2009, 04:00 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,787
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Re: Miranda Rights for High-Level "Combatants"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
The Miranda is for people in the American court system.
If someone illegally crosses the border from Mexico to the US and they are arrested, while they are not Americans, they still have the same rights because they have been brought into our legal system and those rights are available to every one who is brought into that legal system.
They might not be Americans. But we are. So we afford those rights to those who are in our legal system.
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No the miranda is read to people BEFORE they enter the American court system. It's a right. It's a privilege to protect our Freedoms....why is that available to enemy combatants?
Why not also give them the right to vote? Let them go free and live here like Americans too?
Illegals are not enemy combatants either so they should not be treated the same.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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06-11-2009, 08:39 PM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Miranda Rights for High-Level "Combatants"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
This particular Mexican national that I was speaking about in my example made it 127 miles from the border before being caught.
What you state is totally true... and totally crazy.
Over 1/2 of the US population lives within 100 miles of our borders and rights are reduced in this zone.
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First of all no court would extend it out 100 miles from the border, second it is not crazy, it makes good sense. Just like it makes good sense not to give Miranda warnings to a terrorist. The reality of it is a drunk driving checkpoint is a violation of your rights, they get around it by putting checkpoints in places where you have alternative routes.
Tell you what when we catch them and read them their rights maybe we can put them up at your place for a few days while they are out on bail.
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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06-12-2009, 07:24 AM
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Still Figuring It Out.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,858
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Re: Miranda Rights for High-Level "Combatants"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710
First of all no court would extend it out 100 miles from the border, second it is not crazy, it makes good sense. Just like it makes good sense not to give Miranda warnings to a terrorist. The reality of it is a drunk driving checkpoint is a violation of your rights, they get around it by putting checkpoints in places where you have alternative routes.
Tell you what when we catch them and read them their rights maybe we can put them up at your place for a few days while they are out on bail.
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At the time of the Miranda reading there are no terrorists because everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
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06-12-2009, 07:31 AM
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Cross-examine it!
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orcutt, CA.
Posts: 6,736
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Re: Miranda Rights for High-Level "Combatants"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digging4Truth
At the time of the Miranda reading there are no terrorists because everyone is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
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Are you aware of what takes place on the battlefield? We are not talking about someone we pick up on the NY subway here. When our military captures someone that moments before was shooting at them, there is no presumption of innocence. These guys don't even fight according to the rules of war yet we want to offer them the protection as if they do, and on top of that we now want to treat them as US citizens.
BTW these guys are given several hearings before we determine they are terrorist. We have no desire to house people who are not a threat nor have information that is useful to us. Do you think the average soldier in the field determines who we detain?
__________________
"Beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow." ~Aesop
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06-12-2009, 03:34 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: In His Hands
Posts: 13,914
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Re: Miranda Rights for High-Level "Combatants"
Par tof the problem in the war we are waging in Afghanistan and Iraq is that our enemies are worth more to us alive than dead.
Using the military as policemen is not what I'd prefer.
But simply killing them will not bring victory.
So how do we win these wars?
Guns and violence alone won't do it.
It takes diplomacy.
This change of policy is a diplomatic gesture aimed at changing the Arab's world view of America in their backyard.
I understand this decsion, but I don't like it.
Mr. Ridge had to go along with it.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Last edited by Jermyn Davidson; 06-12-2009 at 03:42 PM.
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