When God speaks ...

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Timmy

OK, that wasn't quite fair. I know you don't believe that. (I think you don't, anyway.) But let me ask this:

Did God command Deanna Laney to kill her children?

Of course not, she was deceived by the effects of mind bending drugs, even though they were legal. The psychotic drugs created by men for greed of billions in profits are destroying more than we can imagine.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Timmy

And to bring it back on topic:

Did God command Richard Gazowsky to make a movie?

No, Richard decided out of the context in which he has been conditioned that God wanted him to make a movie.

Men do all kinds of things and blame God, or declare God's direction motivated it. Some of these things produce good, and some produce evil, and some produce nothing all.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Of course not, she was deceived by the effects of mind bending drugs, even though they were legal. The psychotic drugs created by men for greed of billions in profits are destroying more than we can imagine.

Regardless: who says God would never tell someone to do this, drugs or no drugs? He has done it before (you believe). Why not again? Maybe it was part of God's plan. Just calling some of his children home. Seriously, I don't see how you can be so sure that He didn't. (I am pretty sure He didn't, but I don't think He ever speaks to people!)

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by crakjak

No, Richard decided out of the context in which he has been conditioned that God wanted him to make a movie.

Men do all kinds of things and blame God, or declare God's direction motivated it. Some of these things produce good, and some produce evil, and some produce nothing all.

How do you know this? Is it because the movie hasn't been made yet? Is there a time limit on projects God gives His people? Or was it just too ridiculous? What is the maximum allowed ridiculousness?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Well, I don't either. But you guys are Pentecostals. You believe that God speaks to people, personally, for instruction and guidance. What makes you so sure God didn't tell this Pastor to do some amazing things?

Did God tell Abraham to sacrifice his son? Did God tell Moses to speak to a rock? Has God ever told you to do something, or helped you with a decision? Maybe something that didn't make much sense to you at the time, but you trusted and obeyed anyway, and it turned out to be something wonderful? Or maybe it didn't. Guess it depends on whether you were right, that it was God talking to you.

I think you'll agree, sometimes people get it wrong. Maybe they just imagined it, and couldn't distinguish the random daydream from God's voice. I suspect that happens a lot! Even that audible voice we hear about so often can be unreliable. People hear voices sometimes, and they're not (always) God's voice! And the Bible even warns us about hearing from angels! Dreams, visions, interpretations of tongues -- irritating how unreliable they are, isn't it?

I've asked a few times on AFF, how can you tell if it's really from God? And I've asked Pentecostals elsewhere the same question. I've never gotten any better answer than "you just know" or "if it lines up with the Word" or "you learn to recognize His voice". Or my favorite, for predictive prophecies: "if it comes true, it was from the Lord". I don't really have to explain why that's bogus, do I? Nor the others?

Got an estimate of how many purported messages from God are genuine -- that is, are actually from God, by His specific action to deliver it (by whatever medium)? Of course, there is no way of knowing, even of the examples we are personally familiar with (such as Pastor G's). We can't tell which is genuine and which is not!

It's not just that it is difficult. It is that we cannot tell. Not ever. The recipient of the message cannot tell, and those who hear about it cannot tell. Ever. It's not possible. So the messages could be all genuine, all fake, or any ratio between.

What's the solution? If it sounds too absurd, do we reject it? One problem: everyone has a different level of tolerance for absurdity! Another problem: who's to say that God doesn't want us to do something absurd? One more: even if it's not absurd, it may not have really been from God.

Or should we assume it's genuine until proven otherwise? Sure. If we don't mind the occasional ruined life, or a few dead children, or some dashed hopes. Or we could assume it's bogus until proven otherwise. Oh, but I know what you're thinking: "That's no good, because we'd never actually prove it's true!"

Bingo!

My solution, which you guys must reject, being good Pentecostals, is to assume every purported message from God, whether it's a prophecy, interpretation of tongues, word of knowledge, still small voice, or whatever, is not from God, and to reject it as such. Assume it's bogus. You find that unacceptable and distasteful, even heretical. But, if Deanna Laney had adopted this policy, she likely would not have killed her children. She may have gotten professional help, instead, or may not have felt that God gave her that command to kill her kids in the first place.

As for Pastor G, well, the documentary about his project would never have been made. I admit, there's a down side!

Timmy I worry for you. Using Deanna Laney as your example not to believe God is a poor choice. You could just have easily found a good example, but as usual you choose to try and disbelieve the things of God. His Word.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Esther

Timmy I worry for you. Using Deanna Laney as your example not to believe God is a poor choice. You could just have easily found a good example, but as usual you choose to try and disbelieve the things of God. His Word.

I never said I don't believe God. I believe every single thing He has ever said.

[Esther]

Did God tell RG to do a movie? I can only tell you He hasn't told me one way or the other, and I haven't ask Him.

I know God has folks do some seeminly ridiculous things for a reason. I do believe that IF God told him to do a movie or anything else He would provide a way to do it. Noah built the ark. God provided the means to do the job.

[shawndell]

I think when you need a answer from God its time to pray and get that answer.It may come from some one else but it will always be on the subject you were praying about with out thier knowledge.It could also be that still small voice.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Timmy

How do you know this? Is it because the movie hasn't been made yet? Is there a time limit on projects God gives His people? Or was it just too ridiculous? What is the maximum allowed ridiculousness?

Actually, I don't know if God told RG to do a movie or not, I don't know the man nor the context.

I have never heard the audible voice of God, however I believe God does give men the urge to do somethings. How does this come about, usually, I believe thru the knowledge of God's love and character the spirit within us gives a desire to do certain things.

How do we know if God led someone else to do a certain thing? If we are seeking after God and are in relationship with Jesus I believe we can judge if a thing is from God or not. What things am I referring to? The things that effect us and our lives and those closest to us, because it is our individual responsibility to separate the precious from the vile. It is not our responsibility to judge everything everyone else in the world is doing or not doing.

That is one of the problems with mass media, it gets us involved with things that distract us from our responsibilities and drains us of the passion to do what we each have to do. Just some random thoughts, on Monday morning.

[Sister Alvear]

Most of the time it is not God...HE left us a book and in that book we can find His words and biddings. I am not saying He does not speak for He does...of course He does...but not to exploite and abuse people.
God is kind and His personality is made manifest in the creation of this world...