God, by His Spirit, led His people long before the merger, the outpouring,
etc.
He lead His people out of the wilderness of Sin and continues to lead them
just as of old. In the beginning, GOD!!!!
Blessings,
Falla39
Amen. The funny part of the story is that Granny Miller would come back from the woods and live as cleanly and holy and Godly as any saint, but with time she would slip a bit and pick back up her snuff box and start with a poor attitude.
then she would go back to that old stump where she prayed and when she came back she was a saintly as you please!
There were few people around in those days and even fewer churches. once in a while an itenerate preacher would wonder thru the woods and find my folks and preach to them.
granny didnt have many folks that believed because there just werent very many folk that lived around there.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Amen. The funny part of the story is that Granny Miller would come back from the woods and live as cleanly and holy and Godly as any saint, but with time she would slip a bit and pick back up her snuff box and start with a poor attitude.
then she would go back to that old stump where she prayed and when she came back she was a saintly as you please!
There were few people around in those days and even fewer churches. once in a while an itenerate preacher would wonder thru the woods and find my folks and preach to them.
granny didnt have many folks that believed because there just werent very many folk that lived around there.
Back then, my family had never heard of the organization, merger, etc.
God led them out of Methodism into more of His wonderful Light. God led
them out of the wilderness and into the Light of the Glorious Gospel of our
Lord Jesus Christ. He has always led His children in the way HE would have
them go.
My Grandma Lizzie had a place wallowed out down in the persimmon grove.
The place where she went to meet her Lord in prayer.
I posted a link from a thread I posted (ABOVE), more about Grandma after she was
baptized in Jesus Name and received the Holy Ghost.
ok,.....to sum it up, the PCI had those who believed you were saved at repentance and some who believed in the three step method of salvation....the PAJC believed in the three step method of salvation,....both came out of the AOG.....both preached holiness....
.....am I to conclude that the PCI was a little more liberal then the PAJC???....who were the main players of both groups at the time of the merger and what churches decendended from their roots?....were they prominent in different areas of the country?....and why is the western district of the UPCI so conservative?.....
Ahem! I will school you on these matters of consderable import and debate...
And you (sort of) summed it up okay. There's a PCI manual posted on here somewhere where even the word "trinity" is used to describe the one God.
"Prominent areas" for the PCI way were the Pacific Northwest, Midwest and especially Tennessee. When I was younger they used to warn us about "Tennessee." All of this is just generally speaking, of course. The truth was much more complex.
California in the post war years beckoned as a land of opportunity to many people including Oneness Pentecostals. Many people thought "whoever controls California will control the nation..." The huge growth rates certainly spoke for themselves.
The Haney clan was of course well established in the Stockton, CA. long before the war. They were of the "PCI" persuasion. Stockton was (and maybe still is) the largest inland port in the world. This was the primary outlet for all of the produce of the rich California Central Valley.
With the merger of the PCI and PAJC in 1945, a program was immediately implemented by the "conservatives" within the PAJC to undermine the spirit of the Fundamental Doctrine and the merger itself. One of the first salvos was fired when Ike Terry moved to the Sacramento area and began to establish a new work there. Years later, Borther Terry would boast that he was "the first to preach Acts 2:38 in the Valley..." as a direct attack against the Haney's and their perceived "soft on doctrine" habits.
I was personally forbidden to attend Christian Life College in Stockton after meeting with Kenneth Haney and Dan Rigdon, because "that Kenneth Haney has a real problem with compromise out there..." This was back in the early 1980's. It always puzzled me; if I posted the nickname Brother Terry was known by, I'd be banned here from AFF. But he was always the one who known for "holiness" and everyone else was known for "compromise.
There were a large number of other transplants over the years. They eventually wrested control of the old Western District from the "compromisers." They were not particularly interested in promoting the UPC as a whole and would often go out of their way to try and drive good men from the fellowship.
Once, a pastor in the Bay Area with a growing church was presented with a land deal that was incredibly generous. The only sticking point was that he had to put over $20,000 down immediately or lose the deal. You know how land is in the Bay Area. He was forced to jump on the deal weeks before the District Board could meet. When they finally did meet, they presented him with this offer: Give up the $20,000 deposit or turn in your card.
Nice guys. They really thought they had gotten rid of another "compromiser." He was called this despite the fact that he preached and practiced all of the traditional "holiness" customs. His wife was an especially popular singer in the UPC. They were welcomed everywhere in the fellowship, but they were not "clean" enough in the old Western District because they didn't play ball with the "conservatives."
The man kept his card and walked away from over $20,000. It was one of the classiest things I had ever seen, and one of the most Christian.
While I wouldnt paint all the PAJC fellows with that broad brush that pel has done, (and I come from a PCI background church), I will say that California is one very wierd place where the politics has often been a blood bath and good men have been cut to shreds out there.
i would go a step further though and suggest that it wasnt just PCI/PAJC belief at the heart of all of it. a big chunk of the Callifornia stuff is just personal dislike. its really kind of sick.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
It is my understanding that they did NOT both preach holiness. Some of the earliest photos of the Gen Sup show his wife with short hair and a string of pearls. Others have also been around showing women in pants and lipstick...
Wasn't it posted here along with a quote just a few days ago?
Or rather "holiness" as defined by the OP was not nearly as "emphasized" as it is today in some circles. In certain areas it is considered a matter of salvation but not in other areas....
It is my understanding that they did NOT both preach holiness. Some of the earliest photos of the Gen Sup show his wife with short hair and a string of pearls. Others have also been around showing women in pants and lipstick...
Wasn't it posted here along with a quote just a few days ago?
Or rather "holiness" as defined by the OP was not nearly as "emphasized" as it is today in some circles. In certain areas it is considered a matter of salvation but not in other areas....
I would argue a point here... they did preach "holiness." It's just they had a standard that was different from what some of the self proclaimed Holiness preachers had.
My great-great grandfather was a Holiness preacher from a long line of Holiness preachers. He would have been bewildered by some people's idea of "holiness" today:
...what stock did the following come from:....Urshans, Goss, Yarden, Chambers, AT Morgan, Price, Tenneys.....and so forth....BTW I find this discussion very interesting as I have never heard it discussed before in such detail.....thanks
...what stock did the following come from:....Urshans, Goss, Yarden, Chambers, AT Morgan, Price, Tenneys.....and so forth....BTW I find this discussion very interesting as I have never heard it discussed before in such detail.....thanks
Urshans - Nathaniel Sr. PAJC Youth Leader
Howard Goss - Founder of PCI (along with John Dearing).
Yadon (?) PCI
Stanley Chambers - General Sec. of PCI
AT Morgan - PCI
(Paul) Price (PAJC - at least that's what I remembered he said once, I have no documentation right now - away from Library).
Tenneys - PAJC
Linear Mode
