For the Record! - Page 4

Ron · #31 02-04-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Ron, I understand totally what you are saying. I would however question what many term "blessings of God". It is very often not what we think it is.

I have heard it said, "If you are here tonight and need anything - whether it's your health, your finances, or other miracle - IT IS GOD'S WILL that you leave with it". This kind of speak leaves me perplexed. I believe what we want and what God wants is very often in conflict. There are times when our will meshes with the will of God - yes, but it is achieved through the Holy Spirit and a denial of our own will.

Keith, sorry for the detour....

I am thrilled that folks are being saved under you ministry!

I agree!

God is good & I am glad for what God is doing in Keith's ministry.

I just pray he doesn't get burnt out!

Hoovie · #32 02-04-2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Ron are you saying God isn't pleased with us??

Sorry I am just a little bit confused as to why you would say this, and we are not teaching any new doctrine--so dont know why God would not be pleased with us.

I think he is just saying that having lots of people, money, buildings etc. are not a good indicator whether one is in God's will or receiving favor of God. I don't think it was in reference to you specifically - but to everyone in general.

Hoovie · #33 02-04-2009, 07:45 PM

In the general sense all things are from God...

In our minds of course, all GOOD things are from God while my debt, sweat, and heartache is from Satan. I am convinced however, that all things - including my life and death are in His hands and ordained by Him.

Hoovie · #34 02-04-2009, 07:49 PM

Keith and Jeanie, I do not discount your ministry because you don't observe as strictly as some do. Neither do I discount the ministry of those hold very strict standards. I believe some of both types are growing and having "revival". Praise God for the report you bring!

Those from either side who judge sharply the other - they should be discounted as that attitude is worthless.

Cindy · #35 02-04-2009, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Someone sent me a topic on another unnamed forum. The question is what church is there among us (UPCI) that is having revival with the following characteristics:

Cut Hair
Makeup
Women Wearing Pants
People going to Movies
and the other separation issues.

I am not currently UPC though I am a 5 generational UPCIer, graduated from a UPC Bible College, served on the staff of the largest UPC church and still have extensive connections to it. So I don't know if I exactly qualify in answering the question in the topic. But I think I can say that I believe I qualify as one experiencing revival in our church, without having our church focus on those outward marks of traditional holiness that has always been associated with the "Doctrine".

In less than one year's time, we have more than doubled in attendance, I have personally baptized over 25 people in Jesus name in the last 6 months, seen many of them receive the spirit, teach/taught the 3 step experience of Acts 2:38 as being the normative experience for Christian intiation.

Our attendance goal of 125 will be most likely met by Easter.

So in answer to the that topic, I represent a church that is experiencing NT revival in every since of the word.

Anyone from the UPCI care to argue that I am not experiencing revival?

I don't want to argue with you. But I do want to say Praise the Lord for souls being born into the kingdom of God!!!

Ron · #36 02-04-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I think he is just saying that having lots of people, money, buildings etc. are not a good indicator whether one is in God's will or receiving favor of God. I don't think it was in reference to you specifically - but to everyone in general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

In the general sense all things are from God...

In our minds of course, all GOOD things are from God while my debt, sweat, and heartache is from Satan. I am convinced however, that all things - including my life and death are in His hands and ordained by Him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Keith and Jeanie, I do not discount your ministry because you don't observe as strictly as some do. Neither do I discount the ministry of those hold very strict standards. I believe some of both types are growing and having "revival". Praise God for the report you bring!

Those from either side who judge sharply the other - they should be discounted as that attitude is worthless.

Thank you Bro Hoover, that is exactly what I was trying to say!

Innocuous · #37 02-04-2009, 08:00 PM

You're lost brother, and I'm praying for your soul. And your poor wife and hapless children.

Sherri · #38 02-04-2009, 08:12 PM

Tonight I was praying with a sweet little six year old girl in the altar and she was shaking all over and speaking in tongues as fluently as anyone I've ever heard. She had on bluejeans and so did her mom. God moves in willing hearts; He doesn't care what they're wearing. Thank God for New Testament revival that's happening weekly!

I applaud Keith & Elizabeth for the work they're doing there in Turlock!! I've been there and felt the power of God in such a strong way. I have no doubt that they're soon going to be bursting at the seams, and I rejoice with them.

pelathais · #39 02-04-2009, 08:23 PM

From my experience those that follow the "standards" listed in the first post tend to be groups of people who are sternly set upon going in a particular direction. This is a powerful force among human beings- with or without the Spirit of God! Though, also from my experience - the "standards" seldom translate into "revival."

On the other hand; I have observed groups that left the "standards" and did seem to lose some of their direction. It was like they were attempting to get acclimated to the new climate but never really did so.

What's crucial for "revival" is good leadership and a real sense of comfort and balance with the individual church's atmosphere and culture. Rearranging the furniture all of the time throws people off. Set a course and "stay the course."

That being said, the vast number of "revivals" that have occurred in the church age seemed to happen somehow without our laundry list of "standards." We will often hearken back to the Great Awakening, the Welsh Revival, Asuza Street, Topeka and many others when we express a yearning for "revival."

Not one of those moves of God occurred within the context of our list of "standards." Not one.

As for UPC churches - in answer to your question: there's ... - except they do emphasize the uncut hair and at times promote HMH. But I will see folks from there at the cinema and most have televisions. Some of the women wear "pants" but not to church.

Then there's ... - in a "military" town. All of the sisters who are in the service wear pants, whether scrubs or BDU's, etc. Also, most folks have television.

There's ... where a few "officials" attend. They're known for "cap sleeves" and revival; go figure. There's ... out on the West Coast (and no - not RG!). On their "friends day" at church most of the brothers wore cargo style short pants. The majority of the ladies wear make up- some quit a bit; and skirts that are a bit shorter than most folks would allow.

... just several UPC churches that are having "revival" but don't follow the "standards" code.

gloryseeker · #40 02-04-2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Not looking for a reward, just wanted to take on the myth that if you don't preach our cultural outward standards as the doctrine then you won't have revival or growth. Or worse yet you will lose everything that you have.

Off topic, but responding to your Pray for India signature. I'm leaving for India a week from tomorrow!