Who has the WORD of God for the Saints?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have NEVER known ONE Apostolic preacher that taught saints cannot hear from God???

Then what is your problem? There are some out there, and that is what I was addressing.

Saints are daily LED by the Spirit , convicted by the Spirit, revelations of the Word are imparted by the Spirit. This is a farce being perpetrated.

No it is not a farce. There are circles where the saints are told they cannot get anything. I have talked to saints who somehow got that impression and were silent and wondered what we were talking about when we said they can read the Word and receive understanding and direction in their own studies. It may be rare, but it is out there. THAT is what I am addressing. So why are you freaking out if the shoe does not fit your foot, anyway?

However God's primary way of revealing his will and word is through preaching(1Cor. 1:21, Titus 1:3) by preachers. EVERY Epistle was written by a preacher did that mean God was not speaking to his saints? Of course not . The is a red herring to insult saint and preacher and exalt a lofty few under the guise of humility. As for God His way is perfect and God set this up in scripture by example and command it stands on it's own.

Of course the preacher is vital. I never said he wasn't. But there is cultic mindset out there that teaches the saints cannot hear from God. THAT is my only issue. It makes me wonder why some flee when no one pursues.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Joelel

At the time of Jesus yes you could depend on the Ministery to preach the full truth because they were taught by the TEACHER JESUS

You are wrong.

Jesus said the gates of hell would never prevail against the church. There would ALWAYS be true ministers and true churches so long as the world continues until the Lord comes. You make it sound like the church failed and the Rock no longer stands for the church.

but sence then the church has been falling away from truth and has been being perverted.

That is deception, brother. I deny that with everything in me. You can only conclude the Lord failed you when He said the gates of hell would never prevail against the church.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by originalsecretplace

What's that quote that keeps coming up????

Throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one that gets hit yelps

What other explanation can there be?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Brother, break out and read the bible. I said nothing against the preachers. Preachers preach the gospel to the world. Preachers preach to congregations. The church needs preachers. But the only issue I am standing against is the lie that the saints get their word from God from the preacher, and cannot hear from God themselves. You told Rhoni you never said anything about people not being able to hear from God. Well, what is your problem then? That was my point. Some preachers think the saints cannot hear from God, and some saints agree. They pay their preacher to do their bible studying and praying. They do none of it since they think the preachers alone can get truth from the bible like the Catholic church used to preach the saints could not own a bible for the same reason.



That is not true. The revelation of the Word comes to ANYBODY who has spiritually matured. Not primarily preachers. You are dead wrong, brother. Yes, the immature saints cannot receive revelation and require milk of the word. But they are to grow through the preaching and come to a place where they can hear from God as well. They still need the preachers for general direction since God works through a body in this manner and there is order. But to say God primariuly gives the Word to the preacher is nor true at all.

Read the book, brother.

Anything past Acts 2:38 people need to rely depend on the Holy Ghost to teach them.Most of them teach you have to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Ghost,that is not true.God said they would prophesy. Acts.2:16: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.17: And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.

(Did God say they will speak in tongues when filled with the Holy Ghost ? NO.When people are filled with the Holy Ghost do they prophecy? According to God yes.Some may speak in tongues,some may prophecy,some may do both.)
.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

My heart's desire as a pastor is NOT to get people to obey me or set me up as the authority over their lives. My goal is to help them develop a relationship with Jesus Christ, love His word and delight in following Him!

Exactly.

We are to help mature the saints so they can hear from God and be used of God in the body of hte congregation. Imagine a church, like Paul wrote of in 1 Cor 14, where sinners and unbelievers come in and the body functions together like a well-oiled machine. The secrets of their hearts are made manifest from the ministering of the entire body, not just a preacher. And they fall on their faces and are no longer unbelievers in God, but they exclaim "God is in you of a truth!"

The preacher continues to work with the body as a conductor of an orchestra, with every member playing a part, instead of the one-man show on the platform. New saints are being led along by the hand spiritually to learn how to walk in the Spirit. Soon they can be led by the Spirit, too, and work with the church to manifest even more of God's will into the world through them. And the preacher continues to correct, assist and guide people in the Spirit with a special gifting for that.

We had about a dozen people in our home last night for the cell meeting that my wife and I lead. The discussion was awesome. I hardly said anything really. I just let people discuss, ask questions, and answer themselves. It is amazing what good and inspired things people will come up with when the Lord has the freedom to speak through them. I am trying to teach them that the Pastor doesn't have to dominate the discussion or always have to be the one in "control."

And that is what threatens some pastors. Control freaks. One man shows.

Rarely, have I seen people who really loved God come up with such weird stuff that I had to pull them aside and try to correct them. There is plenty of room in the body of Christ for diversity!

Right. Weird things do have to be dealt with as they do crop up now and then. But that is where the pastor really shines. But no one is speaking against the need of a pastor. For goodness' sake I am one!

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by LadyChocolate

lolololol that is soo contrary to what I've been taught!!!! a friend of mine said they were in a service where the preacher said that God doesnt call men to preach anymore but that the pastor does and that the ministry is to work from under the annointing of the pastor....I've wondered about that......................

Yes and that's why EVERYONE needs to depend on the Holy Ghost. Most do preach some lies.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Yes and that's why EVERYONE needs to depend on the Holy Ghost. Most do preach some lies.

I wouldn't say most do...that's a lil extreme...but i've seen my share of those who think their like and dislike should become law in your own home. but those are not the norm....I know more good men who actually preach the word and less of those who are the control freaks.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Rhoni in all honesty I am answering an attack posted under the guise of being wiser and more in tune than the rest of the ignorant preachers in Pentecost and yes it does get old. I am around preachers that are constantly praying sinners through to Calvary buring them in water in Jesus Name, seeing them filled with the Holy Ghost and then attempting to teach them to live overcoming fruitful lives, helping to save broken marriages-dreams-lives-hopes and it does get old that we are simpletons who really do not have a clue what the real meat of the word is.Well the old saying is the proof is in the pudding. Those who decry legalism and judgmentalism the most I have seen are mostly filled with it in a peverse way. I do not mean to attack you since you are not who posted but it seems you are in every Amen corner of anyone who has a gripe against preachers and preaching maybe you should try counseling??????

Bro. Epley,

I look at posts individually and try not to typecast the poster. The statement you made about me was a blanket satement and not true. I do not ALWAYS amen those who have gripes against preachers/Pastors. And I was in counseling for 7 years to deal with my issues, and now am fully equipped to counsel others...thank-you for again judging me. This gets so old to me and I am taking a break for awhile since I am tired of the same ol same ol...

Blessings, Rhoni

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Anything past Acts 2:38 people need to rely depend on the Holy Ghost to teach them..

Preachers do help people learn past Acts 2:38. Some have to read a book in order to get any thought past Acts 2:38, but there are many many preachers who have great spiritual depth and are invaluable in leading saints past Acts 2:38. They help the saints understand these further issues. Again, God's churches have NOT FAILED through the centuries until today. It's just that one has to FIND such churches.

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You are wrong.

Jesus said the gates of hell would never prevail against the church. There would ALWAYS be true ministers and true churches so long as the world continues until the Lord comes. You make it sound like the church failed and the Rock no longer stands for the church.



That is deception, brother. I deny that with everything in me. You can only conclude the Lord failed you when He said the gates of hell would never prevail against the church.

Right the gates of hell can't prevail against the true church but most out there is not true.Math.wrote straight is the gate and few find it.

Math.7:13: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24: Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: