Do you care to expound on the MISINFORMATION that is being circulated Iraq, the economy, Obama, Palin and etc?
Iraq=Bush lied (flawed intel), blood for oil (we have never controlled any of their oil), we are losing the war (we defeated Hussein, we have marginalized Al-Qaeda there, Al-Sadr has been marginalized, combat deaths are way down, "The Surge" has worked and is working, the government is democratically elected).
The Economy=eight years of Bush caused the downturn (in part b/c of uncontrolled spending but the manipulation of Fannie and Freddie by Clinton Admin and Democrat resistance to reform was the biggest culpruit)
Obama=Obama's tax plan (95% tax cut is actually a handout to 40% who don't pay taxes), Bill Ayers just a neighbor (whatever), spread the wealth isn't socialism (uh-huh), Obama never knew the racist and controversial Jeremiah Wright that was displayed on YouTube (it just happens that every time Obama was in attendance JW preached "Love Your Neighbor", "I Love Israel", "Slavery: Let's Forgive and Forget", and "God Bless America")
Palin=Down's Syndrome child belonged to daughter (false), Sarah isn't qualified (plenty of credentials), Palin illegally used authority to have former BIL fired (cleared of wrong doing), Sarah spent 150K on clothes (RNC purchased clothing)
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When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
Hasn't forms of socialism been going on for decades in the U.S.? I mean for as long as I remember people who've paid nothing in have gotten benefits and handouts funded by tax payers.
Why suddenly is it such an outrage? Is it only because it could effect the wealthy in Obama's proposal?
All of this sudden outrage is a little strange.
Yep seem strange. Lets get real here, we are going to have higher tax no matter who gets in ! Otherwise how will these supposed programs come to be??? It take money and a lot of it, yes your and mine as well, yes we are going to pay the piper no matter what. DUH!! Do I like it??? Nope, but it not going away!
I for one em ready for big change, sick of yesterday leftover and stone age thinking!
Mike, you are either uninformed about the truth or you are purposely oversimplifying the obvious in order to dilute the problem BO has created for himself by telling Joe the Plumber he wanted to spread the wealth.
Obama embraces an ideology of wealth redistribution that goes farther than New Deal socialism. His recently revealed radio interview from 2001 in which he talks about "redistributive" opportunities missed during the civil rights movement. Its an agenda to take more from those who are successful, from those who are the main job creators, from those who invest into the businesses and companies that invent, that innovate, and that produce the products that make our economy competitive and progressive.
When BO says "I am going to give 95% of Americans a tax cut" he is not painting a full picture. 40% of Americans don't pay ANY taxes. He will give them basically free handouts, cutting them a check like a tax rebate, using the money taken from real tax payers (middle class and upper class).
BO says $250,000 and up will be the only ones who pay taxes. Then in a tv ad he says $200,000. Biden in an interview the other day said $150,000. The appearance that a hidden agenda is there is what has many people concerned. Obama's strong ties to very left leaning people and organizations along with his most liberal Senator status, recently voting to raise taxes on people making $42,000, and his "spread the wealth" response to Joe the Plumber makes labeling him a socialist and his policies socialism not so strange.
Its not "sudden outrage" (a nice attempt to obfuscate), its calling it what it is.
So if I'm to understand you correctly DB, this is the first time in your memory that a person who does NOT pay taxes in, will be eligible for a tax refund from money they didn't contribute too? Is that what you're claiming? This is some kind of new fangled policy initiative from BO?
Just to be clear, I'm not defending BO. The man has said in his own words that he supports wealth redistribution in some forms and fashions. There's no argument there. I'm personally opposed to wealth redistribution. I just think it's completely hypocritical of Republicans to suddenly pretend to be outraged over "socialism", when in fact, they've supported socialists tendenices as well.
My personal belief is that this BO $1000 tax credit to people who don't pay taxes isn't anything new on the block. If you listen to right wing hacks and their fear mongering, you'd believe this is some new ideal that will translate into this country being full fledged socialist within 4 years and that's just silly.
In case they've all been under rocks for the last 40 years, we've had forms of socialism FROM BOTH PARTIES mind you, being peddled out of Washington D.C. I'm glad that suddenly we have a great sense of false outrage about it.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
How are we not as free? Because of the domestic and international survelliance conducted by the goverment? Please. You don't want the CIA or FBI listening to phone conversations between terrorists and thier sympathizers here in the US? They can listen to me all they want. I have nothing to hide. I'm in no danger. The only folks who should worry are terrorists and those that would aid and abet them.
Okay. Let's talk about the FACTS here. I know its not always a convenient factor when it comes to the Bush bashers on Iraq but the truth can make you free if you're willing to embrace it. First, EVERYONE, including nations that opposed our actions against Hussein, all were in agreement that Hussein had WMDs in violation of the original cease-fire agreement of 1991. The info was proven to be faulty, but no one at the time had any reason to believe it was not true.
Easy there DB. If you're not concerned with defending your constitutional rights, that's fine. Some of us aren't exactly willing to trod all over the 4th amendment so telephone calls that the government has NO reason to believe is concerning terrorism can be recorded and listened too. If someone makes a call that's on a terrorist watch list, then by all means listen. That's not what the Bush administration proposed. Any call from outside this country to a U.S. citizen can be eavesdropped on for no reason at all. That's treasonous and unconstitutional.
On Iraq, I completely agree that GWB was given bad intelligence. The CIA and other intelligence agencies bear that responsibility.
The truth, however, is that GWB had the same intelligence that Bill Clinton had, but Bill Clinton didn't make the disastrous mistake of planning and undertaking a full scale ground invasion of a sovereign country on maybe's and probably's. GWB's collasial failure was acting on that intelligence when he shouldn't have. It's a well known fact that intelligence is wrong a great % of the time. The lesson that has to be taken from this folly is that when going to war based solely on intelligence, it's prudent to not do so unless it's a last resort. Iraq was NOT a last resort.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
So if I'm to understand you correctly DB, this is the first time in your memory that a person who does NOT pay taxes in, will be eligible for a tax refund from money they didn't contribute too? Is that what you're claiming? This is some kind of new fangled policy initiative from BO?
No I didn't claim that it was new. I didn't claim we don't have some measure of socialism in our government. FDR guaranteed that, LBJ expanded it, Clinton added to it, Bush and his expanded prescription drug benefit, and this recent Wall Street bailout. Mike, BO is more liberal than Barney Saunders of Vermont (an admitted Socialist). I have been plenty critical of Republicans when they have violated conservative principles.
What BO is proposing (his so-called tax cut is just the tip of the iceberg) is hyper-Socialism, through the roof Socialism, bigger than we've ever had it. I was angry at Bush and GOP controlled Congress for missed opportunities and for fleecing us with compassionate conservatism and I wrote a letter to Ken Melmen to tell him my displeasure. Bush in the end is no conservative fiscally. He is a moderate at best.
Now Obama is in a different league. In his interview on NPR his worldview was communicated. He called our Constitution a Bill of Negative Rights and feels the Constitution needs to be expanded to insure redistribution of wealth. He has been tutored and associated with some of the most radical people in our country. By his own admission in his book he sought out "Marxist professors" as some of the people he wished to surround himself with.
So this characterization of a great sense of false outrage is a misnomer. I am outraged that a guy this dangerous has a chance at the White House, I am outraged that the GOP has lost its way from Reagan conservatism, I am outraged that the media continues to cover for the legitimate questions raised about Obama and I am outraged that people will vote for Joe Schmoe for President helping to insure Obama's victory when a palitable alternative in McCain/Palin is available.
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When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
No I didn't claim that it was new. I didn't claim we don't have some measure of socialism in our government. FDR guaranteed that, LBJ expanded it, Clinton added to it, Bush and his expanded prescription drug benefit, and this recent Wall Street bailout. Mike, BO is more liberal than Barney Saunders of Vermont (an admitted Socialist). I have been plenty critical of Republicans when they have violated conservative principles.
What BO is proposing (his so-called tax cut is just the tip of the iceberg) is hyper-Socialism, through the roof Socialism, bigger than we've ever had it. I was angry at Bush and GOP controlled Congress for missed opportunities and for fleecing us with compassionate conservatism and I wrote a letter to Ken Melmen to tell him my displeasure. Bush in the end is no conservative fiscally. He is a moderate at best.
Now Obama is in a different league. In his interview on NPR his worldview was communicated. He called our Constitution a Bill of Negative Rights and feels the Constitution needs to be expanded to insure redistribution of wealth. He has been tutored and associated with some of the most radical people in our country. By his own admission in his book he sought out "Marxist professors" as some of the people he wished to surround himself with.
So this characterization of a great sense of false outrage is a misnomer. I am outraged that a guy this dangerous has a chance at the White House, I am outraged that the GOP has lost its way from Reagan conservatism, I am outraged that the media continues to cover for the legitimate questions raised about Obama and I am outraged that people will vote for Joe Schmoe for President helping to insure Obama's victory when a palitable alternative in McCain/Palin is available.
I understand your point DB. I agree with most of it.
I certainly agree that BO has expressed socialists views in the past that concern me. I just feel that given what he's proposed to this point, he's not proposed any more socialism than what this country has seen for the past 40 years at the hands of Dem's and Pub's. Will he once he's elected and in office? Well that's up for debate and yet to be determined.
I've been through the "Joe Schmoe" argument several times. Just because someone like myself isn't supporting John McCain doesn't mean I'm helping BO. I had a BO supporter tell me the other day that voting for Bob Barr was just like voting for John McCain. That argument is totally moot and it only depends on who the person saying that is supporting and wanting to win.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
Yep seem strange. Lets get real here, we are going to have higher tax no matter who gets in ! Otherwise how will these supposed programs come to be??? It take money and a lot of it, yes your and mine as well, yes we are going to pay the piper no matter what. DUH!! Do I like it??? Nope, but it not going away!
I for one em ready for big change, sick of yesterday leftover and stone age thinking!
Higher taxes no matter who wins? Lets get real here. Who has the track record for cutting taxes and raising taxes? Reagan, W. Bush = tax cutters. Bush, Sr raised taxes as a compromise with the Democrat Congress and lost reelection. Clinton promised a middle class tax cut in '92 and NEVER gave us one, but instead gave us the largest tax increase in history. But he was magnetic and spoke well so we reelected him. I have paid less taxes in the Bush years than I ever did under Clinton and my income has been higher in this decade than last.
You're deluting yourself if you think that no matter who wins we will all pay higher taxes. On what credible information supports that idea? Is it a gut feeling? So you are ready for big change? Well President Obama will bring you plenty of it. Your dollars will turn to change. He will change marriage to include gay couples. He will change our constitution. He will change the conservative bent of the Supreme Court to ore liberal. He will change our healthcare system into a government controlled socialist program. He will change restrictions on late term abortions. He will change our relationship with Israel. He will change from his middle of the road campaign rhetoric to his true liberal, radical socialist self.
With Obama you'll get big change alright, buddy, but I am afraid it won't be the kind of change you'll be Happy Town with.
__________________
When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
Higher taxes no matter who wins? Lets get real here. Who has the track record for cutting taxes and raising taxes? Reagan, W. Bush = tax cutters. Bush, Sr raised taxes as a compromise with the Democrat Congress and lost reelection. Clinton promised a middle class tax cut in '92 and NEVER gave us one, but instead gave us the largest tax increase in history. But he was magnetic and spoke well so we reelected him. I have paid less taxes in the Bush years than I ever did under Clinton and my income has been higher in this decade than last.
You're deluting yourself if you think that no matter who wins we will all pay higher taxes. On what credible information supports that idea? Is it a gut feeling? So you are ready for big change? Well President Obama will bring you plenty of it. Your dollars will turn to change. He will change marriage to include gay couples. He will change our constitution. He will change the conservative bent of the Supreme Court to ore liberal. He will change our healthcare system into a government controlled socialist program. He will change restrictions on late term abortions. He will change our relationship with Israel. He will change from his middle of the road campaign rhetoric to his true liberal, radical socialist self.
With Obama you'll get big change alright, buddy, but I am afraid it won't be the kind of change you'll be Happy Town with.
Lets see here, we've had Bush a Republican for eight years, we've have one of the worst economy's ever! We have gay marriage as well, we still have baby being kill on a daily basis! Bush and his nuts, have done nothing to better our health care system, more people out work then ever, people are losing their homes, going hungry losing it all, due to bad government under his watch!!!
If McCain gets in, babies will still be killed, gay marriages will go on, more Tax as well. Majority rules !!! The people want change! It's Government for the people, not the other way around!
McCain say he been in Government a long time, so his record speak truth, he done nothing for these causes! So you think it change once he in??? He had years of opportunity to change things , yet has done nothing! He a dinosaur at best! As they say, you keep doing the same thing, you'll keep getting the same results!!!
America is speaking loud and clear, CHANGE!
As for change???? I welcome it!
Almost forgot!!! As for Freedom??? We lost it under Bush and his 9/11 lies!!! We are no longer a free people , we are salves at best! So it's already here!
Lets see here, we've had Bush a Republican for eight years, we've have one of the worst economy's ever! We have gay marriage as well, we still have baby being kill on a daily basis! Bush and his nuts, have done nothing to better our health care system, more people out work then ever, people are losing their homes, going hungry losing it all, due to bad government under his watch!!!
If McCain gets in, babies will still be killed, gay marriages will go on, more Tax as well. Majority rules !!! The people want change! It's Government for the people, not the other way around!
McCain say he been in Government a long time, so his record speak truth, he done nothing for these causes! So you think it change once he in??? He had years of opportunity to change things , yet has done nothing! He a dinosaur at best! As they say, you keep doing the same thing, you'll keep getting the same results!!!
America is speaking loud and clear, CHANGE!
As for change???? I welcome it!
Almost forgot!!! As for Freedom??? We lost it under Bush and his 9/11 lies!!! We are no longer a free people , we are salves at best! So it's already here!
HT, do have any idea how government works? And I thought being a salve was a good, healing thing. Is there no balm in Gilead?
__________________
When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
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