Grace Verse Legalism

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Interesting thread here. Grace is the most beautiful gift that God affords us. Second is the Holy Spirit. I don't agree that legalism was made up by a 'modern day saint'. I think there is legalism on both sides. One can be legalistic by saying every has to be at the same level, dress, actions, places you go to, etc. Also legalism is on the other side. Those in the lib camps can be legalistic cause they say anything goes, no one needs standards, etc. We all should have a relationship with God and He is the one that directs us.

Thank God for Pastors. But some of them take saints down a road they need not go. Roads are needed, but not all roads get you to the same place. My Pastor is pretty balanced as far as erroring on the side of Grace though he teaches standards and such. He is a 3-stepper, and he knows that I am not. But we get by just fine. There are some 3-steppers that believe hard core about standards and 3-steps, but are not legalistics. The big step in legalism is realizing that not all people are going to see thing similarly and not everyone has the same convictions. God does deal with individuals on what they themselves should do. God is no respector of persons, He deals with each of us on our level. Thank God for Grace. Grace is us receiving salvation that otherwise we would not be able to obtain without the cause of the cross.

Amen! Thank you.

Blessings, Rhoni

[cliff d]

Grace is progressive as it always leads to faith and faith leads to the producing of good works. Too many have it backwards and emphasize good works as a way to faith instead of faith as a means to good works.
According to Ephesians 2:8,we are saved by grace(what God does)through faith(what we do).When the emphasis is put on rules as a means to faith,faith cannot develop. Faith demands freedom to trust God independently of unnecessary law.
When religion is unduly structured,faith is aborted as people automatically lean on the structure as a substitute for leaning on God.
Neo-Phariseeism erects unnecessary laws and is regressive to the development of faith.

Nonessential regimentation always leads to the frustration of grace,which in turn leads to the killing of faith which in turn leads to spiritual shallowness.
INSTEAD OF LEADING TO MORE FAITH, NEO-PHARISEEISM LEADS TO NO FAITH.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by cliff d

Grace is progressive as it always leads to faith and faith leads to the producing of good works. Too many have it backwards and emphasize good works as a way to faith instead of faith as a means to good works.
According to Ephesians 2:8,we are saved by grace(what God does)through faith(what we do).When the emphasis is put on rules as a means to faith,faith cannot develop. Faith demands freedom to trust God independently of unnecessary law.
When religion is unduly structured,faith is aborted as people automatically lean on the structure as a substitute for leaning on God.
Neo-Phariseeism erects unnecessary laws and is regressive to the development of faith.

Nonessential regimentation always leads to the frustration of grace,which in turn leads to the killing of faith which in turn leads to spiritual shallowness.
INSTEAD OF LEADING TO MORE FAITH, NEO-PHARISEEISM LEADS TO NO FAITH.

This is shown scripture after scripture isn't it. Even when Moses was on the mountain as God was giving him the ten commandments the people needed a God they could see and rituals they could perform to make them feel religious.

The reason for many of the unrealistic dress standards put upon us are about "Give them and inch and they'll take a mile. It isn't a sin but you know it could lead to one". The Bible teaches moderation in all things. When you constantly rail at people about how to dress, where to go, what not to do...you set them up for failure and hopelessness.

The more you love God, the more faith you acquire, the more fruits of the Spirit you cultivate in your life the more moderate you will be.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Jack Shephard]

There is a dicatomy to Grace though. The law said if you touch a in adultery women/man you were to be stoned. Grace says if you even think about a women/man that you would die in your sins with out repenting. Grace is not a get out of jail free card. Grace saves us. It is also an open line of communication to the Saviour so we can return again through repentance.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

This is shown scripture after scripture isn't it. Even when Moses was on the mountain as God was giving him the ten commandments the people needed a God they could see and rituals they could perform to make them feel religious.

The reason for many of the unrealistic dress standards put upon us are about "Give them and inch and they'll take a mile. It isn't a sin but you know it could lead to one". The Bible teaches moderation in all things. When you constantly rail at people about how to dress, where to go, what not to do...you set them up for failure and hopelessness.

The more you love God, the more faith you acquire, the more fruits of the Spirit you cultivate in your life the more moderate you will be.

Blessings, Rhoni

Rhoni,

You get what you preach/teach.
Preach faith for a healing-you will get the faith that produces a healing!
Preach against sin & you will get conviction.

People are sheep & sheep are dumb (with apologies to sheep) & need teaching.

Otherwise Pastors are not needed & irrelevant.

We had one new convert going around wearing "see through" blouses!
The Pastors wife went & spoke to her & it cleared the matter up.
She was sincere, but sincerely wrong.

I guess that is legalism.

[Steve Epley]

Grace is NOT God's septic tank that catches all our trash.
Grace gives victory over sin.

LEGALISM IS NOT OBEYING WHAT IS COMMANDED IN THE NEW COVENANT THAT IS GRACE WITHIN ITSELF.

[cliff d]

So our emphasis should be on getting believers to develop a relational liaison with the vine rather than a structural relationship with man's standards. Grace will deepen your walk with the Lord because it is relational in nature and not structural. Grace is an affiliation of the believer and Christ, that is held together by love that creates good works as a byproduct rather than as required performance.
Grace has a higher standard than law because it says: Have your own way in all my life. Grace goes beyond rule books and bylaws.

We need grace to do more of the teaching rather than man regulating everything for the believer. Too many believers have no concept of letting grace develop their faith because they have been choked and hindered by man's interpretation of everything.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

LEGALISM IS NOT OBEYING WHAT IS COMMANDED IN THE NEW COVENANT THAT IS GRACE WITHIN ITSELF.

Amen, Elder! I respect your position, and hope that you can respect mine.

Let me just say that obeying what is commanded in the New Covenant is not legalism, it also is not creating dress codes and rules based on a group of men's concept of how it should be applied. I believe in modesty, and in discipling new believers by example. But codifying our convictions removes grace and DOES replace it with legalism.

God bless.

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by cliff d

So our emphasis should be on getting believers to develop a relational liaison with the vine rather than a structural relationship with man's standards. Grace will deepen your walk with the Lord because it is relational in nature and not structural. Grace is an affiliation of the believer and Christ, that is held together by love that creates good works as a byproduct rather than as required performance.
Grace has a higher standard than law because it says: Have your own way in all my life. Grace goes beyond rule books and bylaws.

We need grace to do more of the teaching rather than man regulating everything for the believer. Too many believers have no concept of letting grace develop their faith because they have been choked and hindered by man's interpretation of everything.

WOW! Very well said!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by cliff d

So our emphasis should be on getting believers to develop a relational liaison with the vine rather than a structural relationship with man's standards. Grace will deepen your walk with the Lord because it is relational in nature and not structural. Grace is an affiliation of the believer and Christ, that is held together by love that creates good works as a byproduct rather than as required performance.
Grace has a higher standard than law because it says: Have your own way in all my life. Grace goes beyond rule books and bylaws.

We need grace to do more of the teaching rather than man regulating everything for the believer. Too many believers have no concept of letting grace develop their faith because they have been choked and hindered by man's interpretation of everything.

On the flip side of the argument man is inherently sinful & chafes at being told what to do--by anybody!

It is Biblical to be submitted to a man of God.
Our job is to find that man that we can submit too.