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  #31  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:45 AM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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Great post. We can now save babies born as young as 24 weeks and sometimes younger.
Thank you. In my opinion, as technology advances, the limitations on abortion should logically increase to at least banning abortion past the date of reasonable viability.

This is one point where even liberals should agree, and when they don't, it is very telling about their character and "secret" agendas.
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  #32  
Old 09-29-2008, 10:53 AM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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Thank you. In my opinion, as technology advances, the limitations on abortion should logically increase to at least banning abortion past the date of reasonable viability.

This is one point where even liberals should agree, and when they don't, it is very telling about their character and "secret" agendas.
It's interesting to question people who use the term 'women's right to choose' so loosely. Most of the time they have they have not thought through the philosophical presuppositions of the position.
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  #33  
Old 09-29-2008, 11:23 AM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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So is murder, rape, etc.....
You're missing the point. I think that in "reality" there's no way to police the issue properly. No court in the land would execute a woman for having an abortion, nor would any court in the land sentence a woman to life in prison for an abortion. I can see perhaps a fine. But then you have reduced the value of life to a dollar amount and the government will have found a way to profit on it.
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  #34  
Old 09-29-2008, 11:28 AM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

Ultimately abortion is here to stay. A woman's body is her body and the government will never force a woman to give birth. No court in the land would rule in favor of such.

It's a waste of time, money, and votes. And this is only an issue to use guilt and religious convictions to force fit a Christian into voting for the party that religious conservatives demand they vote for.

This is a weapon....not an actual issue.
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  #35  
Old 09-29-2008, 11:32 AM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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This is a weapon....not an actual issue.
Tell that to the 50,000,000 babies who were killed.
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  #36  
Old 09-29-2008, 11:33 AM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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You're missing the point. I think that in "reality" there's no way to police the issue properly. No court in the land would execute a woman for having an abortion, nor would any court in the land sentence a woman to life in prison for an abortion. I can see perhaps a fine. But then you have reduced the value of life to a dollar amount and the government will have found a way to profit on it.
I'm not missing the point. Rape and murder are "here to stay" and we still police them........
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  #37  
Old 09-29-2008, 01:55 PM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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Tell that to the 50,000,000 babies who were killed.
I will....

To the 50 million babies killed in America, you were aborted by your mothers. The Government didn't force them to abort. At any moment they could have chosen to keep you. Some of you were aborted out of necessity...most were aborted out of a choice based on fear or selfishness. The sin lays on your parents and God will judge justly. As for the political side of it, neither party plans on doing anything substantial to end abortion. But one party argues that it is on your side just to garner votes. They are capitalizing on your deaths for political gain.

There, I told that to them.
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  #38  
Old 09-29-2008, 02:02 PM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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I'm not missing the point. Rape and murder are "here to stay" and we still police them........
Rape and murder are crimes against a sovereign citizen of our nation committed by a person with malice and forethought.

With abortion we're talking pregnancy. There isn't a relationship like pregnancy found anywhere in nature. In pregnancy two lives are intertwined in such a way that makes it entirely unique. At some point we have to establish who's rights trump the other's. In this case I believe the best bet is to establish that the mother's right over her body and the seed in her womb supercedes any assumed rights of her unborn. She has the right to keep it....and tragically she has the right not to. It is outside the scope of a just government to step in and seize a pregnant woman's body and force her to give birth against her will. It is outside the scope of a just government to deny the rights of a woman over her own body. For this reason, legal abortion is a necessary evil in a just society.

The best way to combat this is through propogation of the Gospel, prayer, and education. No law will adequately address this issue.
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  #39  
Old 09-29-2008, 02:52 PM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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Rape and murder are crimes against a sovereign citizen of our nation committed by a person with malice and forethought.

With abortion we're talking pregnancy. There isn't a relationship like pregnancy found anywhere in nature. In pregnancy two lives are intertwined in such a way that makes it entirely unique. At some point we have to establish who's rights trump the other's. In this case I believe the best bet is to establish that the mother's right over her body and the seed in her womb supercedes any assumed rights of her unborn. She has the right to keep it....and tragically she has the right not to. It is outside the scope of a just government to step in and seize a pregnant woman's body and force her to give birth against her will. It is outside the scope of a just government to deny the rights of a woman over her own body. For this reason, legal abortion is a necessary evil in a just society.

The best way to combat this is through propogation of the Gospel, prayer, and education. No law will adequately address this issue.
True. And she should keep that right. She should not, however, have or retain the right to kill her unborn child at her own convenience.

When a woman becomes pregnant, she no longer "owns" her own body, whether she likes it or not.

Aquila, regardless of the political ne'er-do-wells who DO capitalize on this issue to garner votes, your worldview does not come from a biblical perspective. God is the author of life, and once a life is conceived, it is worthy of respect and value on that basis alone, equal to that of any other human, young, old, born or unborn.

I agree that the best way to combat this presently is through propogation of the Gospel, prayer and godly education. However, if at some point it can be addressed from a different perspective as well, then it should be.

Personally, I do not believe that heavy handed tactics, picketing, and other aggressive methods work, either to change minds or change laws. However, I do believe we have an obligation to stand for what is right, and whenever possible, even though we are personally powerless to change laws, we should put someone into position who at least has the potential power AND intention.

I can't, in good conscience, vote for a man who endorses abortion, would consider it for his own daughters (for convenience' sake), and DOES plan to make it an issue in his presidency. For a politician to ignore the matter is one thing; for him (or her) to actively progress the matter in a negative direction is another.

There ARE changes being made, in small ways that have significant effects. Every step of the way matters. If you believe that nothing is changeable, why vote?

We still have the freedom to choose our leaders in this country, and we should vote as closely in accordance with our own principles as humanly possible.
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"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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  #40  
Old 09-29-2008, 03:08 PM
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Re: Can A Real Believer Support Abortion Rights?

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I will....

To the 50 million babies killed in America, you were aborted by your mothers. The Government didn't force them to abort. At any moment they could have chosen to keep you. Some of you were aborted out of necessity...most were aborted out of a choice based on fear or selfishness. The sin lays on your parents and God will judge justly. As for the political side of it, neither party plans on doing anything substantial to end abortion. But one party argues that it is on your side just to garner votes. They are capitalizing on your deaths for political gain.

There, I told that to them.
Since I argue against abortion and attribute it to murder what party am I a part of?
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