What was a "Gentile"?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

By "Law," what law or laws are you referring to? I am not trying to be difficult here. I am only asking for clarity.

No problem. I appreciate the chat.

What I am referring to is the Law you mentioned...

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

...Technically, if you're a Jew, you keep the law.

That is the Law I am asking about. What LAW (the one you mentioned) is anyone--Jew, Samaritan, gentile--supposed to still be keeping?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

No problem. I appreciate the chat.

What I am referring to is the Law you mentioned...



That is the Law I am asking about. What LAW (the one you mentioned) is anyone--Jew, Samaritan, gentile--supposed to still be keeping?

The "law" in THIS instance is referring to the 613 mitzvot the Jews keep to this day. It is what it means to be truly Jewish. I am speaking from a Jewish point of view not a theological point of view. I hope that makes sense.

[Falla39]

The law was given for transgression UNTIL Jesus (the Seed) could come.

The law and the prophets were until John, but grace and truth came by
Jesus Christ. Under the Old Covenant everything pointed AHEAD to when
Jesus Christ would come. Jesus came and fulfilled the law. Now we look
back to the Cross that marked the place where things began to change.
Where things were going to be better. Bitter bondage was going to flee
because the One who came to set the captives free had come. Those
who sat in darkness were going to see a Great Light. The One who could
exchange beauty for ashes had come. The One sacrifice, once and for all,
had been given. Bless His Holy Name!!
Those that are Christ are not under the law. Many are still blind because
they are like those children that are not of age yet. Though an heir, they
are are no different than a servant because they are under tutors and
governors, etc. until the time appointed of the father. He knows when we
are able to receive/believe we are truly son/daughters of the Almighty.

A King is not about to hand over a son or daughter's inheritance if He
knows that child is not mature/responsible to realize the value and handle
it with carefulness.

He knows when we are responsible and mature enough to realize the value
of our inheritance. He doesn't want us to waste it. The One who paid the
price knows the value and what went into obtaining it.
(Read Gal. 4:1-7)

Jesus paid it all,
All to Him I owe;
Sin had left a crimson stain,
He washed it white as snow.

Many today have been given "valuables" that they were not mature or old enough to handle. Much waste has been the result. Things too easily ob-
tained don't hold the value that it would if the price had been paid. The
value of something is most realized by the one who labored for it.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye seperate, saith the LORD,
and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father
unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
(2Cor. 6:17,18)

Blessings,

Falla39

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

How does that happen?

Quite simple really.

Abraham was promised that he would become a "great and mighty nation" (Genesis 18:18).

Isaac was promised that his seed would be like the stars of heaven (Genesis 26:4).

Jacob (Israel) was told that he would be a nation and a company of many nations (Genesis 35:11).

Jacob married two women (Leah and Rachel) and had concubines (Zilpah and Bilhah). Jacob had twelve children:

Children from Leah:
Reuben
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Issachar
Zebulon

Children from Rachel:
Joseph
Benjamin

Children from Zilpah:
Gad
Asher

Children from Bilhah:
Dan
Naphtali

In the Divided Kingdom the descendants of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin became the "House of Judah", or the Southern Kingdom. The descendants of Reuben, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulon, Joseph, Gad, Asher, Dan, and Naphtali became the "House of Israel" or the Northern Kingdom. Joseph's sons (Ephraim and Manasseh) were issued promises. Ephraim was promised that his descendants would become a "multitude of nations" and Manasseh was promised that his descendants would be come "a great people" (Genesis 48:19).

Assyria conquered the Northern Kingdom and took them into captivity and assimilated them into Assyrian society (721 BC). Babylon then conquered Assyria and rose to dominate the region.

The "House of Judah", or the "Southern Kingdom", was conquered by Babylon (586 BC).

While the "House of Judah" (the Jews) returned to the land of Palestine and were in the land until the Romans conquered Jerusalem in 70 AD, the "House of Israel" (Ephraim and Manasseh) were never seen again. No one knows exactly what happened to these peoples. They were quickly assimilated into Assyrian society which causes great difficulty in tracking where they may have gone. However, we know that when Babylon conquered Assyria they dispersed and drove many Assyrian captive peoples into Europe. No doubt many descendants of the "House of Israel" were among them. Having lost their Israelite identity in Assyrian they now quickly assimilated into various European cultures.

But here's the deal....Ephraim and Manasseh were given promises. Ephraim was to be "a multitude of nations" Manasseh was to become "a great people". Were these promises fulfilled? Some believe yes. There is one nation that has essentially become a melting pot of "many nations" or "ethnicities" and there is another who's influence is nearly unparalleled throughout history that was truly classified as "great". While no one knows for sure, some believe that Ephraim's descendants found their way to the colonies and are now living in the United States. While Manasseh's descendants settled in the Isles becoming Great Britain. If this is true, many Americans and Brits are "Israelites". This is why America and Britain are tied to modern Israel (Judah) in prophetic destiny. America, Britain, and Israel are nations full of many descendants of Abraham through Isaac. This is also a detail in understanding why God has chosen to preserve and spread his Word through the English peoples and language. And this is the spiritual root of America's godly heritage.

Now factor in a second detail....Arabs are descendants of Ishmael. This is why Arabs desire to destroy America, Britain, and Israel....many of us are children of the covenant through Isaac....and the Arabs are the seed of the bond woman, children of Ishmael. This is the spiritual side of the battle against Islamic terrorism. It's all prophetic. It's a battle between the seeds, and the fate of the world rests in the balance.

That's how it's possible that some are Israelites without even knowing it.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Quite simple really.

Abraham was promised that he would become a "great and mighty nation" (Genesis 18:18).

Isaac was promised that his seed would be like the stars of heaven (Genesis 26:4).

Jacob (Israel) was told that he would be a nation and a company of many nations (Genesis 35:11).

Jacob married two women (Leah and Rachel) and had concubines (Zilpah and Bilhah). Jacob had twelve children:

Children from Leah:
Reuben
Simeon
Levi
Judah
Issachar
Zebulon

Children from Rachel:
Joseph
Benjamin

Children from Zilpah:
Gad
Asher

Children from Bilhah:
Dan
Naphtali

In the Divided Kingdom the descendants of Judah, Levi, and Benjamin became the "House of Judah", or the Southern Kingdom. The descendants of Reuben, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulon, Joseph, Gad, Asher, Dan, and Naphtali became the "House of Israel" or the Northern Kingdom. Joseph's sons (Ephraim and Manasseh) were issued promises. Ephraim was promised that his descendants would become a "multitude of nations" and Manasseh was promised that his descendants would be come "a great people" (Genesis 48:19).

Assyria conquered the Northern Kingdom and took them into captivity and assimilated them into Assyrian society (721 BC). Babylon then conquered Assyria and rose to dominate the region.

The "House of Judah", or the "Southern Kingdom", was conquered by Babylon (586 BC).

While the "House of Judah" (the Jews) returned to the land of Palestine and were in the land until the Romans conquered Jerusalem in 70 AD, the "House of Israel" (Ephraim and Manasseh) were never seen again. No one knows exactly what happened to these peoples. They were quickly assimilated into Assyrian society which causes great difficulty in tracking where they may have gone. However, we know that when Babylon conquered Assyria they dispersed and drove many Assyrian captive peoples into Europe. No doubt many descendants of the "House of Israel" were among them. Having lost their Israelite identity in Assyrian they now quickly assimilated into various European cultures.

But here's the deal....Ephraim and Manasseh were given promises. Ephraim was to be "a multitude of nations" Manasseh was to become "a great people". Were these promises fulfilled? Some believe yes. There is one nation that has essentially become a melting pot of "many nations" or "ethnicities" and there is another who's influence is nearly unparalleled throughout history that was truly classified as "great". While no one knows for sure, some believe that Ephraim's descendants found their way to the colonies and are now living in the United States. While Manasseh's descendants settled in the Isles becoming Great Britain. If this is true, many Americans and Brits are "Israelites". This is why America and Britain are tied to modern Israel (Judah) in prophetic destiny. America, Britain, and Israel are nations full of many descendants of Abraham through Isaac. This is also a detail in understanding why God has chosen to preserve and spread his Word through the English peoples and language. And this is the spiritual root of America's godly heritage.

Now factor in a second detail....Arabs are descendants of Ishmael. This is why Arabs desire to destroy America, Britain, and Israel....many of us are children of the covenant....and the Arabs are the seed of the bond woman.

That's how it's possible that some are Israelites without even knowing it.

I think we have a British Israel among us? Am I correct?

If so, that whole doctrine falls flat when you factor Jesus and His work into the equation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

I think we have a British Israel among us? Am I correct?

If so, that whole doctrine falls flat when you factor Jesus and His work into the equation.

Identifying Judah and Israel in prophecy has nothing to do with "salvation" as provided in Christ. It only creates a context for understanding prophetic destiny and a backdrop for understanding current events. Salvation is an entirely different story. But something interesting is said of Jesus by the high priest....

John 11:50-52
50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

The "children of God" that were scattered abroad are the lost seed of Israel (Ephraim and Manasseh).

Remember, Ephraim and Manasseh were promised that that one would be a "multitude of nations" and the other would be a "great people". Either this was fulfilled....or a promise went unfulfilled.

And it's important to understand, there's a significant difference between being a Jew and an Israelite.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Remember, Ephraim and Manasseh were promised that that one would be a "multitude of nations" and the other would be a "great people". Either this was fulfilled....or a promise went unfulfilled.

Think spiritually.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Think spiritually.

Oh yes, there are spiritual dimensions to many promises...no doubt about that. However, there are also very real ancestral promises.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Oh yes, there are spiritual dimensions to many promises...no doubt about that. However, there are also very real ancestral promises.

I can prove that alleged "ancestral promises" were fulfilled in the church that were initially spoken to Israel:

There are NO promises to anyone in the bible that are unfulfilled in the Church.

Isaiah 49:3 KJV And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Isaiah 49:6 KJV And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.


Acts 13:47 KJV For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I can prove that alleged "ancestral promises" were fulfilled in the church that were initially spoken to Israel:

There are NO promises to anyone in the bible that are unfulfilled in the Church.

Go ahead, type, bold, and underline all day long. There are promises made to nation groups and the descendants that were fulfilled and are integral part in prophetic destiny (and no, this doesn't presuppose futurism).