Come Out and Be Separate

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by Dora

They shall know you are Christians by your love one for another.

Are we known for the love and respect we show to our fellow Christians and to our neighbors? Are we known for the good we do in our community?

Or are we known for disdaining others who do not hold a particular man-made standard?

I agree with Dora. It's more about being what you're for, than what you're against. If we seriously apply the central teaching of Christ then our outward behavior and attitudes will be markedly different than the world's and this difference will be so obvious that it cannot be missed.

What is 'the world'? It's a worldview or philosophy and a set of values that come out of these. The world values power over other people, Christ said to love people and to serve. That's a radical command. The world values material things, Jesus said to lay our treasures up in heaven. That's a radical command. Just imagine the impact on society that Christianity could have of more of us really put just these two doctrines to practice in earnest? We'd definitely have come out from among 'them' and we would certainly be 'separate'.

I hate to mention it because I can't remember the actual citation, but I read recently where a US President (I think) once said that if Christians really did what Christ said to do then the economy would collapse and the country would be overrun. That seems like a pretty radical result of applying radical commands.

Overall we've adopted ourselves to our culture in ways much more dangerous and insidious than outward moral issues like immodesty and intemperance. To often we accept anti-christ worldviews too easily into our worldview and it puts us at variance with God. In the West I'd point to our view of material goods, political power, individualism, and various forms of hedonism as being the larger culprits in contemporary Christian worldview. The other areas of 'holiness' that get harped on are mites compared to these others that are generally accepted as 'good' and 'American'. In this area we tend to strain gnats and swallow camels.

[Pro31:28]

Originally Posted by GraceAmazing

Thanks for your wise words!!! And they truly are wise and often very hard to do! I too am a moderate OP...I do have outward standards...And I go to church with those that don't....it's amazing that somehow we have an awesome worship service, incredible messages and powerful altar calls! LOL!

I don't find this amazing at all. I think God is there, but I don't think he is only there. If you check out "The Call" Thread, you will see a pretty amazing worship service (videoed by and AWFUL camera woman).

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

Overall we've adopted ourselves to our culture in ways much more dangerous and insidious than outward moral issues like immodesty and intemperance. To often we accept anti-christ worldviews too easily into our worldview and it puts us at variance with God. In the West I'd point to our view of material goods, political power, individualism, and various forms of hedonism as being the larger culprits in contemporary Christian worldview. The other areas of 'holiness' that get harped on are mites compared to these others that are generally accepted as 'good' and 'American'. In this area we tend to strain gnats and swallow camels.

You've said a mouthful!!! I agree!

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

I think several people have missed the point. The point is when people aren't transformed by Christianity they substitute markers for real change. Instead of focusing on changing what matters they resort to becoming exclusive and making outsiders feel like...outsiders.

I got the point and agree with it. but I also know a lot of folk who have been transformed by Christianity get accused of this substitution because what they have come to believe isnt popular.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by GraceAmazing

Thanks for your wise words!!! And they truly are wise and often very hard to do! I too am a moderate OP...I do have outward standards...And I go to church with those that don't....it's amazing that somehow we have an awesome worship service, incredible messages and powerful altar calls! LOL!

God is good! sounds like we are on the same page!

[Tyk]

Good post, good thought. I like.

[A_PoMo]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

You've said a mouthful!!! I agree!

Thanks. But I rilly arta do spayl chek befor i poste.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Something I read this morning that I thought might be of interest to the forum.

“We all know that as Christians we are called to ‘come out and be separate,’ that our faith and spiritual commitment should make us different somehow. But if we are not marked by greater and greater amounts of love and joy, we will inevitably look for substitute ways of distinguishing ourselves from those who are not Christians. This deep pattern is almost inescapable for religious people. If we do not become changed from the inside out – if we don’t morph – we will be tempted to find external methods to satisfy our need to feel that we’re different from those outside the faith.

Groups have a tendency to be exclusive. Insiders want to separate themselves from outsiders. So they adopt boundary markers. These are highly visible relatively superficial practices – matters of vocabulary or dress or style – whose purpose is to distinguish between those inside a group and those who are outside.”

The Life You Have Always Wanted – John Ortberg

The thing is, that this is all so obvious to me. Which makes it all the more frustrating to those who build an entire faith around physical separation via way of a list of "don'ts".

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I know you didn't ask me but I think that everyone needs boundaries. Everyone needs limits. One persons ceiling or limit is anothers persons floor. I think that everyone should set tough goals and limits. That way it is not a truely easy thing to do. Example-don't set your limit at 1 beer if you are used to drinking 5 the limit should be none. See what I mean?

You mean, it shouldn't be 4? LOL

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by A_PoMo

I agree with Dora. It's more about being what you're for, than what you're against. If we seriously apply the central teaching of Christ then our outward behavior and attitudes will be markedly different than the world's and this difference will be so obvious that it cannot be missed.

What is 'the world'? It's a worldview or philosophy and a set of values that come out of these. The world values power over other people, Christ said to love people and to serve. That's a radical command. The world values material things, Jesus said to lay our treasures up in heaven. That's a radical command. Just imagine the impact on society that Christianity could have of more of us really put just these two doctrines to practice in earnest? We'd definitely have come out from among 'them' and we would certainly be 'separate'.

I hate to mention it because I can't remember the actual citation, but I read recently where a US President (I think) once said that if Christians really did what Christ said to do then the economy would collapse and the country would be overrun. That seems like a pretty radical result of applying radical commands.

Overall we've adopted ourselves to our culture in ways much more dangerous and insidious than outward moral issues like immodesty and intemperance. To often we accept anti-christ worldviews too easily into our worldview and it puts us at variance with God. In the West I'd point to our view of material goods, political power, individualism, and various forms of hedonism as being the larger culprits in contemporary Christian worldview. The other areas of 'holiness' that get harped on are mites compared to these others that are generally accepted as 'good' and 'American'. In this area we tend to strain gnats and swallow camels.

This is an excellent post, apomo!