A Petition Movement to Save the Union - Page 4

SDG · #31 03-25-2007, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Friend,

I believe you have hit on the irritation that most conservatives feel. This has already come before the GB, and has been voted on and defeated. Meaning that the majority agree's with what the bylaws currently state. I for one believe the division is not coming from the Cons, but from those liberal UPC ministers that just will not take NO for an answer. They, in my opinion, are just trying to continue to cut away what is established little by little until they have what they want. If the resolution is voted on this year, and defeated again, I can assure you we will see another attempt within a few years time.

The sad fact is, some are just blatantly defying the bylaws, and doing what they want anyway. So much for ethics and integrity.

Sir,

Whether a resolution has been voted on in the past in any organization ... even in Congress ... it does not mean it died.

If the resolution committee resurrect sthis resolution has allowed it ... it's because the process is legitimate and within legality.

If someone does not like resolutions having a second or third life than examine the resolution process ... don't slam the rest of the body ... for voting on said resolution again ... as compromisers or anti-holiness

BoredOutOfMyMind · #32 03-25-2007, 05:35 PM

Daniel, back to severe obfuscation here now.

If a group of ministers takes a DVD of a TV Show none of them would normally miss IF they have a home TV. They take that DVD and distribute it, and discuss the story line- They may as well go ahead and view it on TV.

Some some Einstein's among us have now done that very thing and have Hollywood piped into their homes.

And they sign the AS every other year as if they have never read the resolution.

SDG · #33 03-25-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

For Boom

Resolution 6 would amend the latter part of this statement ... all within the legal structure ... sorry.

BoredOutOfMyMind · #34 03-25-2007, 05:37 PM

The question I have asked and never received an answer is-

IF the ALJC allows TV in the members homes, what is the largest sized ALJC church using for outreach? Are they on TV themselves?

SDG · #35 03-25-2007, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Daniel, back to severe obfuscation here now.

If a group of ministers takes a DVD of a TV Show none of them would normally miss IF they have a home TV. They take that DVD and distribute it, and discuss the story line- They may as well go ahead and view it on TV.

Some some Einstein's among us have now done that very thing and have Hollywood piped into their homes.

And they sign the AS every other year as if they have never read the resolution.

If this is your position ... then why not state it from the get go .. you are worried about the floodgates being opened not the wording of said resolution ....

Did the org allow TV when it allowed video and monitors decades ago ... on paper no ... why would this be any different ??....

If your argument is it's leading to slippery slope then don't obfuscate with other arguments.

In the end, BOOM ... I think this has nothing to do with Holiness vs Evangelism ...

IMHO, its about money, control and influence ....

stmatthew · #36 03-25-2007, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Sir,

Whether a resolution has been voted on in the past in any organization ... even in Congress ... it does not mean it died.

If the resolution committee that allow to resurrect this resolution has allowed it ... it's because the process is legitimate and within legality.

If someone does not like resolutions having a second or third life than examine the resolution process ... don't slam the rest of the body ... for voting on said resolution again ... as compromisers or anti-holiness

Bro Dan,

Please read your post again, and understand why I posted what i did. Here is the part that I responded to....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

If a minister who has joined a fellowship that makes collective decisions through a democratic resolution process cannot accept the will of the majority ... then ... no matter where they stand ideologically .... they have no business joining such an org

The TV issue has been voted on and defeated. From your post about, I have to gather that you thing that all those that want to rehash the tv issue again, and cannot accept the majority vote, have no business staying in the org.

Your words Bro, not mine.

BoredOutOfMyMind · #37 03-25-2007, 05:43 PM

Daniel, you have left the UPC,

I have to ask two important questions to understand your postings.

1- Do you have a TV now in your home?

2- Did you have a TV in your home when you were a UPCI licensed minister?

stmatthew · #38 03-25-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

The question I have asked and never received an answer is-

IF the ALJC allows TV in the members homes, what is the largest sized ALJC church using for outreach? Are they on TV themselves?

The two that I know of that are on tv are Bishop Billy McCool in Knoxville, TN and I think they run probably 300, and Bro Kenny Carpenter in Maryville, TN, and I think they are running about 400-450.

SDG · #39 03-25-2007, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Bro Dan,

Please read your post again, and understand why I posted what i did. Here is the part that I responded to....

The TV issue has been voted on and defeated. From your post about, I have to gather that you thing that all those that want to rehash the tv issue again, and cannot accept the majority vote, have no business staying in the org.

Your words Bro, not mine.

I never said such a thing ... Matt ... just because there are laws and statutes in place does not mean we have to give up our principles, or ideas, or that there is no way to re-ignite a vote on it ....

Example: Abortion is the law of the land ... does it mean I agree with it ... No. Can I blow up abortion clinics to make my point ... no. Can I take my house and secede from the Union ... no ... but I can take political action for change ....

This is what has happened with the "dead" TV resolution ... to not allow this to be re-discussed or voted on again ... simply because it's been decided already is to have disdain for the democratic process in place.

SDG · #40 03-25-2007, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Daniel, you have left the UPC,

I have to ask two important questions to understand your postings.

1- Do you have a TV now in your home?

2- Did you have a TV in your home when you were a UPCI licensed minister?

Yes and yes.

As did most ministers ....in my district ... including most district officials ....

Which now leads me to another point ... this issue is already a done deal .... let's get real about it ....

Most of the fellowship's saints have TVs and many of it's ministers do ... whether you think this is hypocritical or not ... even some national leaders do ...

Why not ... accept the realities and move on .... seriously ....

As for the semantics and legalese ... this is going to happen ... what will be interesting is how some will react.