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  #31  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:30 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
Yes, did you read the thread? The plight is an "it" but sometimes liberal is a "who". I think you realize you are a liberal, and I am conservative for the most part and do not like the essence of anything I might post. I posted this thread to point us all back to what is essential and that as we move forward there are some questions we should ask:

1. Am I attempting to make more room for my flesh to glory?
2. How much room have I made to glorify God lately?
3. Will this liberty prove too heavy for me in this race?
4. Who is in control here? Me or God.
Yes I did ... and suggest a title reflect the root of the problem ... not those we seek to mark.
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  #32  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:31 PM
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Michael Phelps Michael Phelps is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
Yes, did you read the thread? The plight is an "it" but sometimes liberal is a "who". I think you realize you are a liberal, and I am conservative for the most part and do not like the essence of anything I might post. I posted this thread to point us all back to what is essential and that as we move forward there are some questions we should ask:

1. Am I attempting to make more room for my flesh to glory?
2. How much room have I made to glorify God lately?
3. Will this liberty prove too heavy for me in this race?
4. Who is in control here? Me or God.
I think this simple synopsis sums up the heart of the matter. Well said, Sab.

Great questions for us all to ask ourselves, no matter our leanings.
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  #33  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:31 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by tstew View Post
Let me just state my problem with "liberalism" in general not about specific issues here. My major concern is that there is a way that seems right to man, but the end is dead. It was scary to me that I could be honestly trying to do right, but be sabotaged by my own mind and perceptions. I am a pretty balanced person, but I have learned to not over-celebrate my "right" to follow my mind and my heart as it is deceitfully wicked above all things and even I can not know it.
It has seemed even in our society in general that liberalism and the pursuit of personal freedoms has led to bondage by secular humanism. It is very telling to me that what led to the fall of perfect man in the first place was "Did God really say..." and an appeal to the the inate humanistic desire to free the mind.
Awesome post!
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  #34  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:33 PM
Nahum Nahum is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Hmmm, I've never been in such a quandry.....what to do..what to do....


Okay, I have decided I agree with both Sabellius and Daniel.

Is that okay?
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  #35  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:34 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Michael Phelps View Post
I think this simple synopsis sums up the heart of the matter. Well said, Sab.

Great questions for us all to ask ourselves, no matter our leanings.

Exactly.
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  #36  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:34 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
Hmmm, I've never been in such a quandry.....what to do..what to do....


Okay, I have decided I agree with both Sabellius and Daniel.

Is that okay?
Sounds like a good plan.
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  #37  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:35 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea View Post
Yes I did ... and suggest a title reflect the root of the problem ... not those we seek to mark.
4 pages now Dan and you still do not get the point. According to my post there are liberals and there are those who are plagued by it at times. Also, I said that liberalism in some sense gave us the freedom to enjoy our inalienable rights we know as Americans. The plight here is dangerous, and if we care to tend this way we should do so carefully.
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  #38  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:35 PM
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Michael Phelps Michael Phelps is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster View Post
Hmmm, I've never been in such a quandry.....what to do..what to do....


Okay, I have decided I agree with both Sabellius and Daniel.

Is that okay?
Just make a firm statement that you feel strongly both ways.
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  #39  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:40 PM
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

and if we compare ourselves among ourselves we are not wise...

Kinda reminds me of the country of the blind...

We can get used to anything and think it is normal...
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  #40  
Old 07-07-2008, 04:44 PM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
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Re: The Plight of the Liberal:

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Originally Posted by Sabellius View Post
The plight of the liberal is freedom. Who knows if or when one is a liberal, or whether or not they are acting liberal? The point is that they are with us; this plight is with us. It is with us as much as they are with us. Since the Fall in the Garden liberalism has been de-constructing what God originally designed and intended. Liberal thought is basically a thought pattern or intent to liberate man from certain standards or restrictions thereby increasing a sense of freedom. In some sense freedom is necessary for Truth to survive and become known.

For example, truth is the relationship between our thoughts and reality. If I called a friend and told him that I posted a particular thread on this forum and that, later, I wanted him to read that thread. My friend would only have my word and his thoughts until he got to his computer and went to JP and saw the reality. The reality that I indeed did post a particular thread. Truth is the relationship between thoughts and reality. Freedom then enables us to know truth. Thankfully we know the Truth of God's Word today because of freedom that we enjoy. Freedom that liberal thinking people took from tyranny. Liberal then is a bit relative.

The issue becomes absurd and confusing when freedom is conceived of as self-autonomy. Liberty without order is not liberty but soon to be infringement upon another person's freedom. In fact, to have liberty you must be willing to give it to others.



Those who overtly seek freedom from laws can become lawless and no longer be free. Their liberating conquest is now an enemy unto themselves and has bound them to the consequences of aloneness and self-governance. When one's liberties, like those of terrorism, begin to embark upon the liberties and freedoms of others then order must destroy that liberty to survive. There is and will always be a thin line between freedom and order; freedom and authority.

Voltaire once said, "man is free at the moment he wishes to be." In some sense this is true, yet man only becomes free from one taskmaster to become property of another.

Adam and Eve realized after the Fall that they could not hide from God within the leaves and cover of the Garden of Eden. God indeed found them. Now man seeks to hide within himself. Man, inwardly, is constantly wishing and wanting to be free from constraint...to be self-autonomous. In fact, in large part this is the plight of the atheist too. He does not want a God over him.

No human will be without the struggle of flesh and spirit. No human will find true happiness and contentment without following after God and yielding control to His Holy Spirit. Man cannot find Eden on His own. Eden is no longer a place on the map, it is a relationship with God.



Galatians 5 speaks of our freedom in Christ and to not turn to the yokes of slavery. Yet we must hold such words in contrast to vs. 24. Paul says we "belong" to Christ. Just three chapters earlier Paul stated:



No we are not slaves to this world, but we have indeed chosen to crucify ourselves. To die and then live again as Christ lives in us. We BELONG to Christ. Having it "your way" may work for fast-food but it does not work for the Apostolic lifestyle. We are in a race and in such a race let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. We must endure and finish the race. Sin will cause us to miss this mark.

Everyday man is in a battle with his humanity. In fact, humanity may once again, take control, reach its pinnacle and bring human thought and intellect back to its darkest times. When one tends toward liberalism, indeed if one ever feels the need for this plight, he should ask himself four questions.

1. Am I attempting to make more room for my flesh to glory?
2. How much room have I made to glorify God lately?
3. Will this liberty prove too heavy for me in this race?
4. Who is in control here? Me or God.

That is just psychobabble
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