For My Own Eyes

[Book 'em Dano]

It really is not an Apostolic thing.

Christians have been saying who is saved and not saved for years. They don't all say it with the same attitude though. They just speak matter of factly

[bkstokes]

MOE

I would suggest that you read the book of Romans (like in the message translation). I was a radical pentecostal -- I have true empathy for you.

I encourage you to read Romans because once you get the picture that there is no condemnation -- Living for God truly becomes a Joy unspeakable.

[My Own Eyes]

First off, let me just say that the drama queen in me, is just loving having a whole thread that's all about me!!!

Originally Posted by bkstokes

MOE

What caused you to doubt?

Oh boy! Do you have 14 hours??

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Why didn't she answer the question?

I'm sorry, stupid real life got in the way, and I wasn't able to break free until now!

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That's why I don't respond to your posts.

PO, honestly, I think I am much better than I used to be. In the beginning, I was very in your face and quite hostile about many things. I took a break for a while, and feel like I have made progress.

One thing to understand about me, is that if I KNOW that I trulyirritate you, I will actually do my best to keep our interaction as mild as possible. Because I understand that some people think I'm funny, and that some people don't get me, and I really have no desire to be a pain to those people.

Originally Posted by Book 'em Dano

Curious. Why? What informed you that there is a God/Jesus?


How do we do that?


I think non-Apostolics by and large would not consider you a Christian for rejecting the inspired word of God too

Originally Posted by Book 'em Dano

Wow. I've been Apostolic for more than 20 years and I have never been consumed in my every waking thought of going to hell. I don't know anyone else that is either. Why do you think that happened that way?

Originally Posted by Rico

I've wondered that myself, BeD. I have a theory. It sounds to me like she was being buffeted by a spirit of condemnation or something.

Originally Posted by Book 'em Dano

I noticed you mentioned she still has faith. If that is the case then perhaps what happened really shook her faith

So many questions to answer, and it's so difficult for me to do without writing several novels!

I think I can start by saying this...

I was flawed to begin with. I had plenty of issues before I ever stepped foot into a church. But then I came into a severely flawed spiritual situation. That is not an equation for healthy spirituality, you know?

After I left, I began the process of deconstructing my faith. It was like I knew I was wounded, but until I started the really poking and prodding at the wound, I didn't realize how badly it was infected.

For a long time I couldn't see beyond the pain. It was all I knew. It was totally all encompassing.

You know how when you are really sick, and after a few days you can't remember what it was like to not to be sick? It's like you know on one level that just a few days ago, you were physically healthy, but you almost can't believe it, because you can't remember what it felt like.

That's what it was like for me. The pain, the hurt, the bad stuff (whatever you want to call it), it clouds my memory. If there was ever a time when I loved God, without fear, I can't remember it. If I honestly ever did anything for any reason other than to not go to hell, it's completely gone.

People that knew me back then, can't believe that it was false from the beginning. Maybe it wasn't. Sometimes I think there is a little tiny glimmer in the recesses of my mind of something real and true and good.

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Rico

It seems like it. I find myself at a loss to really be able to help her because I know posting scriptures won't do any good. All I can do is find whatever I can to encourage her to press forward.

It's confounding, isn't it? When you base your entire faith on the Scripture, how do you convince one to whom the scripture holds no authority?

Believe it or not, it frustrates me at times. By nature I tend to be a very black and white person. I like things organized. I like this labeled and sorted and put away properly. A place for everything, and everything in it's place. And so I really do wish that there was a giant book that contained all the answers to life's questions.

But just wanting something to be true, doesn't make it so (otherwise, I would be both thin, and rich!!)

Originally Posted by Book 'em Dano

It really is not an Apostolic thing.

Christians have been saying who is saved and not saved for years. They don't all say it with the same attitude though. They just speak matter of factly

And it really doesn't bother me if someone thinks I'm not saved! I never would have made it 8 years as an Apostolic, if I cared what people thought!!!

[steve p]

If, I am allowed to love only those who have everything "right"....then there is no one to love. Eyes, may God bless you!

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

MOE

What caused you to doubt?

This question kept haunting me, so I thought I would give it another try.

It's true that you don't just go bed one night as a conversation Apostolic, and wake up the next morning as a liberal heathen (sorry Rico ). So I would say that it happened gradually. (Which is where, I suppose, the Ultra Con's get their whole "Slippery Slope" argument).

But the truth was I reached a breaking point.

I was so battered and bruised and broken spiritually. Regardless of how I started, I found that my image of God was of a Big bully, who was capricious and untrustworthy.

It had gotten to the point, where I felt like I was screaming at the top of lungs, but that nobody noticed, not even God.

There is only so much a person can take, and everyone has thier breaking point, and I had reached mine.

I felt like I was at a crossroads. I could either accept that everything I knew and believed was true (and the ramifications that came with it), or accept the fact that things may not be as I believe (and all the ramifications that came with it).

Ironically, when faced with this decision, for the first time in my spiritual life, the fear of hell did not have a place in it.

For if the Apostolics were right, I was going to hell whether I left or stayed. For I had already proven myself incapable of being one of their number. And I was already miserable, so I figured how bad could it be on the outside?

Once I left, the layers slowly got pulled away.

It's not that leaving allowed me to get "decieved" or that I was on the "slippery slope" walking away from "truth", or any such.

Almost right away, I realized that the entire foundation of my religious belief was flawed. Once that part was removed, none of the rest could stand.

[bkstokes]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

This question kept haunting me, so I thought I would give it another try.

It's true that you don't just go bed one night as a conversation Apostolic, and wake up the next morning as a liberal heathen (sorry Rico ). So I would say that it happened gradually. (Which is where, I suppose, the Ultra Con's get their whole "Slippery Slope" argument).

But the truth was I reached a breaking point.

I was so battered and bruised and broken spiritually. Regardless of how I started, I found that my image of God was of a Big bully, who was capricious and untrustworthy.

It had gotten to the point, where I felt like I was screaming at the top of lungs, but that nobody noticed, not even God.

There is only so much a person can take, and everyone has thier breaking point, and I had reached mine.

I felt like I was at a crossroads. I could either accept that everything I knew and believed was true (and the ramifications that came with it), or accept the fact that things may not be as I believe (and all the ramifications that came with it).

Ironically, when faced with this decision, for the first time in my spiritual life, the fear of hell did not have a place in it.

For if the Apostolics were right, I was going to hell whether I left or stayed. For I had already proven myself incapable of being one of their number. And I was already miserable, so I figured how bad could it be on the outside?

Once I left, the layers slowly got pulled away.

It's not that leaving allowed me to get "decieved" or that I was on the "slippery slope" walking away from "truth", or any such.

Almost right away, I realized that the entire foundation of my religious belief was flawed. Once that part was removed, none of the rest could stand.

This is why I consider myself a 1 stepper because my works (for pentecostals --standards) could never save me. It seems that you have suffered under the impression of works. I don't serve God out of fear (trembling), but out of love -- and I can honestly say that. I do have respect for him but I am motivated by faith.

Thanks for responding!

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by Rico

It seems like it. I find myself at a loss to really be able to help her because I know posting scriptures won't do any good. All I can do is find whatever I can to encourage her to press forward.

I was looking through some of my old posts (I REALLY wish I could access some of the ones at FCF & NFCF, I bet I sounded all spiritual and stuff, LOL)

And I found this, and I thought it would fit here. This is what I responded that I wanted on my tombstone :

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...4&postcount=47

Mich....she said it like it was, she never gave up, and she made us all laugh through it all.

(I thought the middle part would encourage you )

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

This is why I consider myself a 1 stepper because my works (for pentecostals --standards) could never save me. It seems that you have suffered under the impression of works. I don't serve God out of fear (trembling), but out of love -- and I can honestly say that. I do have respect for him but I am motivated by faith.

Thanks for responding!

Your welcome! I have been around since the forum's first incarnation as FCF, so many of the old timers have witnessed my journey from conservative, to moderate, to conservative to....falling off the chart

[tbpew]

In reading your OP litany I was only immediately saddened by one thing:

I don't believe that the Bible is inspired, the Word of God, or authoritative

I am really convinced that this conclusion is the an extension of being discipled by men rather than the spirit of God.

If yours was like mine, your primary interaction with scripture was the pre-digested "feed the birdie" kind of teaching/instruction. "This is what it means", "I read and study....YOU FOLLOW ME."

After weeks, months, and finally years, the scriptures are just some kind of tool used by people to manage outcomes among a group of people. They never have occassion or circumstance to become living, or a sought-for and discovered treasure....just more vomit from the some pre-digesting, disciple- maker of men.

Just for kicks, why not try petitioning God for some specific understanding on any specific topic of importance to you and then be open to use the scripture in whatever means you know how to search them for answers.

Scriptures are a witness of spiritual things. Please reconsider how you might handle them and see if spiritual understanding can be received as a refreshing to your spirit.