Disturbing Incident~Spiritual Immaturity~

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

A man or woman of God is just that because of what God thinks about them. I would think you would know that, Prax.

I'm not sure why you felt to interject that to me.

How do we know what God thinks about anyone in order that we can call them a man or woman of God? Is it that they are pastor's wives? Is it that they have a title? Can a joe schmoe in any church that prays daily, reads the word and prays for others but does not preach be a man or woman of God?

I never said someone had to "wait around." But I don't think you should return evil for evil, or even (necessarily) make sure the other person is met with justice.

I don't think I was suggesting you said this.

I do believe that we are to be especially respectful to ministers and elders. I think scripture bears that out both verbatim and in principle. What I will say to my peers, I will not say to my pastor without his allowance for me to speak my mind. And then I will make sure I speak it respectfully.

I think we are to be mutually respectful to everyone. However we are to give some people more honor than others. That might be reflected in how we respect them. Clearly the bible speaks of not accusing an elder under certain circumstances.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by George

You are right. Scripture says not to touch the anointed of God and do His prophets no harm. It also says vengeance is the Lord's. If you leave it in God's hand, He will whip up on those people harder than we ever could. I would never wish bad to anyone, but they do reap what they sow. Someone gave my pastor big trouble and that person is now dying of cancer.

Yes...however if we are ALL filled with the Spirit of God...the same Spirit then aren't we ALL "The Anointed OF God"?

1Jn 2:27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything--and is true and is no lie, just as it has taught you--abide in him.

Kings were anointed and that verse usually quoted referred to the kings of Israel. David would do Saul no harm though Saul was wrong and David had been anointed King already.

But the bible says we are a kingdom of Priests. We will rule and reign with Christ.

We should touch not anyone not just pastors or elders. We should have mutual respect for each other as brothers and sisters in Christ...a class of Priests

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Cookin-with-Stoneking

Background: I was recently involved in a church discipline situation dealing with a couple that have numerous run-ins with other members of the church, even to the point of threatening and attempting physical violence. The church leadership has on numerous attempts tried to help them, counseling, leadership restrictions, etc. This church is a non-UPC church, but adheres to the basic UPC doctrines of Salvation and view of God. There isn't a culture of outward holiness standards, but a typical orthodox OP church. Some members come from the UPC, some through other streams of Christian faith.

Here is the disturbing incident, yours truly (Cookin-with-Stoneking) sat in with a Pastor to discuss the latest incident with this angry couple. After listening to the couple yell out their one-sided perspective about how another family in the church has done them wrong, out to undermine their latest business venture and how that the Pastor did not intervene or doing anything to prevent it.

After hearing the Pastor say that it wasn't the way that he saw it, the man jumped up, screamed I am out of here, proceeded to kick a trash can, kick the door, all the time screaming obscenities and profanity at the Pastor, saying to him as well that your no man of God, you're ******, you're trash and I don't have respect for you and if you were not a OLD MAN I would come over there and put you in your place.

The Pastor most likely unwise to do so told the man Goodbye and waved his hand, this inflamed the man more and he charged the man, to assault the Pastor, yours truly did his best to stand in the way of the rather large angry man. This did work to deter him from psychically assaulting him, but then he said that he was leaving and proceeded to grab some personnel sound equipment that he left at the church.

Now what was most disturbing as the man was leaving he proceeded to cuss out the Pastor for having those (bad word) Trinitarians and other (bad word) around here (a large singing family of AOG lineage was at the church recently doing a concert).

What a disconnect!

This family had no problem being rebellious, threaten physical violence against an elder minister, cursing all long angry that Trinitarians were ministering in the church.


It left me wandering what kind of disciples are we producing, they know doctrine, confess to have the HG but have become a habitation of demons when it comes to personal relationships and getting along with others. This preacher is quite disturbed.

Was this an isolated event or a symptom of a real disconnect between the weightier matters in the spiritual life of a present day believers?

Actually, your post is somewhat encouraging to me. It sounds like the the leadership stayed calm and did the right thing - in spite of the evil being done to them. Also, what if leadership themselves were the ones with this attitude?

Sounds like the church is doing the right thing... don't credit them for producing a tare among the wheat.