God uses suffering to teach us to minister

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

This morning, it was raining. No work today. So... I decided to go to Scottsboro to look up a pastor I haven't seen in over twenty years. I haven't seen or spoken to this brother in many years, had no idea if he was even still living. He was, as it turns out. I found out through a mutual friend where this pastor lives and I went to see him. (He is still pastoring, visited his chrurch tonight).

When I got to his house I learned that he had just recently buried his 2nd wife. (His first wife died years ago). The brother was devastated. He, at first didn't recoignize me so I introduced myself and he remembered. He invited me in and I found that he was sorting thru his wifes things.(Oh, how I recall how painful that is). He kept turning to me with tear filled eyes saying, Brother, what am I going to do with out her?". I just let him talk. He poured his soul out - all of his pent-up emotion came flooding out... I waited...I listened. I cried with him...tried to console him.

Later, as I got ready to leave... he said, "Oh, brother, you don't know how much you helped me." Actually, I did nothing... I just let him talk. Then he added, "Its like you went thru this with me". It was then, as I was ready to walk out the door, that I said, "Brother, you remember my first wife...how she died in 1988?". He remembered. Then, I told him about losing Lola in February of this year. He knew then how it seemed I had went thru this with him. Had things not happened with Lola as they did, I wouldn't have known what to do to help this brother in the Lord. So... God has a way of teaching us thru our suffering, doesn't He?

Amen,He teaches us many things by sufferings,tribulation,chasten,all the same.Even Jesus Heb.5
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Heb.12
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Rom.8
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2Cor.1
[5] For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
[6] And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Philp.3:[7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death


Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
[18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Big Larry- I appreciate your comments in this thread. Its always good to see things from a different perspective. However, its not that I think God sends trouble to build us up or to make us stronger, but its that it is fact that we are made stronger by learning from the troubles that we have. We learn in the fiery furnances of life just as we learn from our mistakes. On of the truest verses in the Bible is Job 14:1 Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble. Troubles are a part of life, just as sickness and death are parts of life. They don't come from God, nor do they always come from the devil. Sometimes trouble comes through our own doing- sometimes through the actions of others. And sometimes, trouble just happens because... well... thats life.

Its interesting that you would refer to Job. No, his troubles didn't come from God- but God used Job's situation to help him see that he had, as all humans do, a character flaw. And, it was in the midst of trials that Job was able to finally see and correct that flaw. So, we too can learn from the problems of life just as Job did. I use a saying in dealing with the problems of life. "We can't have a top without a bottom, can't have a good without a bad". That is to say, if life was all good with no problems, then, we'd never know life is good. We have nothing to compare the "good" with. The Dottie Rambo song says it better than I can:

Life can't be all sunshine, or the flowers would die. The rivers, would be deserts , all barren and dry."

The Bible is full of men and women who learned, not from the "good" of life, but from the bad. Why did it take the children of Israel 40 years to traverse the wilderness when it was only an 11 day journey from Egypt to the border of the Promised Land? (Deu 1:2). Their journey was a learning process. They learned from their mistakes and learned from their troubles. Its not that God sends trouble our way to "teach" us, but He certainly can, and does, teach us a lesson from the troubles of life. I don't agree that tribulation is always the devil trying to destroy us. I believe tribulation is nothing more than a facet of life- its how we react to that tribulation that makes, or breaks, us. If I haven't learned anything from it...then... I failed the "test". To say, however, that tribulation is never used by God as a teaching tool is to discount much of the Bible. Is not tribulation a form of chastisement that God uses to correct His children, just as we use various means to correct behavior in our children? Doesn't the Bible tell us that tribulation works patience?

I don't care for trouble. Don't like it at all. But trouble is inevitable. However, if I have learned something from that trouble, then I have gained and not lost. Maybe that trouble teaches me something about myself just as Job's taught him something about himself (and taught him something about his "friends"). Though, in my POV, the entire story of Job was based on a series of lies, Job benefitted from his trials. He gained from them. He was a better man for it. And, whatever happens to us in this life, if we gain from it, if we benefit from it, then surely we can acknowledge that God used that trouble as a teaching tool.

This is good stuff Bro. OneAccord!

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Amen,He teaches us many things by sufferings,tribulation,chasten,all the same.Even Jesus Heb.5
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Heb.12
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Rom.8
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2Cor.1
[5] For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
[6] And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Philp.3:[7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death


Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
[18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Awesome post!

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by ForeverBlessed

He is our heavenly father... I don't look at it as abuse.

I am not a child abuser, but you can bet your last dollar that I intentionally step back and let my kids make mistakes that I know they will suffer consequences of…. mainly because I know that they must learn. They will hurt, but they will learn. Pain causes us to learn, change so we don’t experience the same hurt again. Some have thicker skulls than others…. lots of pain finally brings about illumination. “Ahhh… I am not supposed to do that”.

I am not an abuser, but I have consistently whipped some backsides over the last 15 years… I am not a child abuser, but I have required my children to stand and face circumstances that I knew was going to hurt because it builds character.

If I was always there, building them up, making they believe they were perfect kids who could do no wrong, making things easy for them so they didn’t have to strive for the things in this life… I would be doing them a great disservice.

True parental guidance is showing unconditional love throughout every failure, every bruised ego… yeah, even sometimes I am the one inflicting the pain.

Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

Psalm 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

FB, you did pretty good. I don't see how you could agree with my post more. The word in II Tim 3:16 is decribing child training. I like your methods, if a child will not take instruction, then let them suffer reasonable consequences, but not anything life threatening.

Adults are different if they are so bullheaded that they won't listen, God will let them suffer even life threatening consequences. (e.i. forty years wandering in the desert, till they learned something? No they didn't learn a thing, they died)

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Its interesting that you would refer to Job. No, his troubles didn't come from God- but God used Job's situation...

God didn't......(that's my point) Maybe Job did.....but God didn't. God can't. God can't do anything unless it agrees with His word, else He would be a liar.

Originally Posted by OneAccord

The Dottie Rambo song says it better than I can:

Life can't be all sunshine, or the flowers would die. The rivers, would be deserts , all barren and dry."

Bro OA, I know this a delicate subject for me to be discussing with you, so I certainly mean no pain for you Dear Bro. Most of her songs are soaked in unbelief pain and suffering. She suffered a lot and she liked to tell you about it. What ever your mental focus is locked onto, will become the dominant force in your world. That's just the way the world is set up. This is a word driven planet. Whatever you talk about will multiply.

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Why did it take the children of Israel 40 years to traverse the wilderness when it was only an 11 day journey from Egypt to the border of the Promised Land? (Deu 1:2). Their journey was a learning process. They learned from their mistakes and learned from their troubles.

They didn't learn "nuthin". They died in the wilderness.

It was the devil who caused life to be as it is today. That's why I blame it all on the devil.

[Bro-Larry]

Most of you seem to be confusing the child training of the Lord thru His word, (which we should all embrace); with the devasting, catostrophic tragedies that the devil brings to everyone of us, trying to get us to accept. I just don't accept it. John 10;10 says the only reason he comes around is to steal kill and destroy.

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Amen,He teaches us many things by sufferings,tribulation,chasten,all the same.Even Jesus Heb.5
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Heb.12
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Rom.8
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2Cor.1
[5] For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
[6] And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Philp.3:[7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death


Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
[18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Joelel, sorry bro but none of your scrips have anything to do with God killing people or giving people cancer, TB, etc, in order to teach them something.

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Paul exhorts Timothy in 2 Tim. 2:11,12.
"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him.
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us".

Phil.3:10, "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the
fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2 Cor.1: "And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers
of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation."

Rom. 8: 17,18 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with
Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

I sat on the oncology floor of Medical City Dallas, something over a year
ago after our youngest sister had undergone chemo twice and then a bone
marrow transplant to give her a complete new immunune system which
hopefully, would take care of the lymphoma that had invaded her body.

I sat there as the physican's assistant, a very sweet lady in her early 30's
gave Lynn the report pertaining to her blood work, etc., etc. After telling her
everything looked really good, she squatted down and eye level with Lynn
told her. "You always have such a good attitude. People are talking about
you here. People are saying good things about you and I think you should
know!

As she left something dawned on me and I spoke these words. "Lynn, God
is getting glory out of your body and your sweet spirit. You are glorifying
God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. As soon as I said it,
the words of a scripture came to mind. We are the temple of God. How else
is He going to be glorified except in us, His Body.

I Cor.6:20 "For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body
and in your spirit, which are God's".

I had never thought of it in that way. God was glorified in His Son and in His
holy apostles. And the Bible speaks of in 2 Thess. 1:10 "When he shall come
to be glorified IN his saints, and to be admired IN all them that believe be-
cause our testimony among you was believed in that day".

Just some thoughts.

Blessings,

Falla39

Sorry Sis, God didn't give Lynn cancer so she could save someone. Only Jesus' sufferings were good enough to save anyone. It is to her credit that she kept a good attitude.

None of your scriptures have anything to do with God killing his children or making them sick to teach them something..

[chosenbyone]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

Most of you seem to be confusing the child training of the Lord thru His word, (which we should all embrace); with the devasting, catostrophic tragedies that the devil brings to everyone of us, trying to get us to accept. I just don't accept it. John 10;10 says the only reason he comes around is to steal kill and destroy.

Well, I read through this thread and I sorta felt that perhaps you were confusing what some posters meant by God using their trails (suffering) to minister to others.

I don't believe that anyone here felt that God sent suffering to them, but he allowed them to reach others that found themselves in similar situations that they had experienced.

It would be even more tragic if we failed to connect and help those that have walked a road similar to ours in this journey called life!

[Bro-Larry]

EXTRAPOLATION happens.