McCain vs Obama in a debate

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Rico

I'll put it to you this way: I will most likely not vote for President this election. I don't like Mc Cain one bit.

Fine.

Keep in mind though, that your non-vote for Mccain is basically equal to a vote for Obama/Clinton.

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts simply because the cuts were not balanced out with less spending. That was his issue and he was right about that.

I've heard this excuse used over and over by the Forked Tongue Express to try and reason why they've flip-flopped on the tax cuts ... it simply doesn't work. The President a couple months ago sent up a budget that breaks records in regards to spending, and yet now McCain is in favor. Tell me, where is the balance of the tax cuts and less spending in the new 3+ TRILLION $$ budget the President sent to Congress?

Simply put, John McCain needs to pander to the conservative party and his votes against the Bush tax cuts, coupled with his already well-documented romance with the Democratic Party, put him at dangerous odds with the base he needed to win the nomination.

[QUOTE=Pressing-On;409109]The Top Nine "Changes" Barack Obama Would Make as President

#1) Weakening America's Military: Barack Obama has pledged, among other things, to make defense cuts during war time, to cut spending on national missile defense, that he won't weaponize space, to slow development of future combat systems, and to seek a "world without nuclear weapons." Is this a man who can be trusted as Commander-In-Chief?

World without nukes sounds good to me. Defense spending quite frankly is out of control, regardless of wartime or not. The Pentagon and defense department have received huge increase after increase with each years budget under Bush. Meanwhile the economy here suffers.

#2) Losing the War in Iraq: Obama is promising to throw away the hard earned gains our troops have made in Iraq by immediately removing combat brigades each month, regardless of the situation on the ground, and by having all of our "combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months."

Iraq needs to grow up and take responsibility for itself. America shouldn't, nor can it afford, to stay there indefinitely. I honestly doubt Iraq will ever be a western-type democracy.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff publicly warned Barack and, for that matter, Hillary that they could create a "chaotic situation" with their policy that could take the "gains we have achieved and struggled to achieve and turn them around overnight." Come on, Admiral, don't you know that Obama isn't going to listen to what the military has to say about a war when there's an election to be won?

Anyone that thinks Obama can or will do this overnight is sadly mistaken. This freshman senator will need all the support from Congress and other government departments in his term ... there's no way he'll go and alienate even the moderates in his own party that would agree, albeit begrudgingly, that the surge is working.

#3) Gay Marriage: Although Barack Obama claims to oppose gay marriage, in 2004 he said that he opposed the Defense of Marriage Act, which is the only thing keeping the courts from imposing gay marriage on the whole country. If you want to see gay marriage become the law of the land in your state, no matter what the voters think, vote for Obama.

Voters have the voice in the matter, as does Congress. For any law to pass recognizing gay marriage, it has to pass Congress. The Republicans won't allow it. This is a non-issue.

#4) Pro-Partial Birth Abortion: It's never a surprise to find a Democrat who's a big fan of abortion, but Obama goes above and beyond the call of duty. He had a perfect rating of 100% from NARAL in 2005, 2006, and 2007, opposes "notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions," and he even opposed banning partial birth abortions. If you want to see as many women as humanly possible in this country putting their own children to death via abortion, vote Obama.

"...a big fan of abortion...?" While I highly doubt Obama is a "fan" of abortion, I'm sure he feels he is right in his adamant support of woman's rights. I completely disagree with him on this issue, but it's a ridiculous stretch to say he's a "fan" of abortion.

#5) Legalizing Marijuana: Obama, a former (we hope) druggie, who has admitted to using marijuana and cocaine, has said that he favors "decriminalizing marijuana." Perhaps you can't blame him for wanting to make it easier for people to get drugs since, after all, he used them and look how he turned out. If Barack gets into the White House, one day mothers all over America can tell their children that they'll never be anything in life if they use hard drugs and those children can reply, "Well, at least I can be President!"

First, Marijuana is hardly a "hard drug." Secondly, it should have been legalized years ago. There's no reason why Alcohol should legal but not marijuana. I wish Congress would pass a bill legalizing it so our jails and prisons would be less burdened by simple pot offenders and our law enforcement not placed in harms way over a stupid and petty pot bust.

#6) Handing 845 billion dollars of your money to other nations: Obama's Global Poverty Act would commit the United States to spending, over the next 13 years, 845 billion dollars more than what we already do on global poverty. Obama followed that up with a release that said in part, "It must be a priority of American foreign policy to commit to eliminating extreme poverty..." If Obama actually believes that not only is the United States capable of "eliminating extreme poverty," but that we should actually make that utopian dream a "priority," then he's far too naive to be in the White House.

I would disagree with Obama here also. I don't believe it's America's job to make the world a happy, healthy, poverty-free place. I believe some things, like Bush's Aids budget (8.1 billion by 2010) is a good thing that has helped an incredible amount of people. However, most nations are big enough or have the resources enough to help themselves. Their problem is their governments or dictators are too busy lining their own pockets to help their citizens.

#7) If you think George Bush is a big spender, you haven't met Obama: Even though the United States is already running a deficit, Obama is planning to push a whole host of new big government programs including a "10-year, $150 billion program to establish a green energy sector," a "$60 billion National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank," and a "nearly universal health care plan (whose annual price tag he low-balls at $50 to $65 billion)." If you're all for tax and spend liberalism and watching the deficit spiral even further out of control, there's no one you should want in the White House more than Obama.

Again ... must pass Congress. I don't give a rip about what Obama wants to do because it must pass the votes of Congress. On this, the Republicans have a pretty good record at stopping Democratic Presidents' money-grabbing programs. What Republicans can't do, however, is find the courage to do the same when a Republican is President.

Example ... Bush's creation of No Child Left Behind or the Medicaid Prescription Drug Benefit program would not have passed, I believe, were it brought to Congress by a Democratic administration.

This is why I'm less worried by Obama being elected than McCain. Republicans would stand up to Obama, while they wouldn't against McCain.

cont ...

[chaotic_resolve]

#8) Amnesty and your tax dollars for illegal aliens: Believe it or not, John McCain, the Republican who is most closely associated with catering to illegal aliens, is actually well to Barack Obama's right on the issue.

Obama favors drivers licenses for illegals, wants to give illegals welfare and Medicaid, wants to let them participate in Social Security, opposes making English our national language, and he favors a comprehensive approach to illegal immigration, AKA amnesty, that even John McCain now claims to oppose.

Don't kid yourself ... John McCain is mad as all get-out that his amnesty package wasn't passed. He wanted that done to secure his votes with Latinos and while he may tell the base he's against amnesty ... if you listen to what he says on the issue, it's the same thing as he tried passing before - only he prefaces it by saying he now understands and is for enforcement first.

Here's some info ... McCain doesn't want English as the official language either.

Critics, including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, called the Inhofe amendment racist, regardless of its intent. Sen. John McCain worried about making English the "official" language. "It gives the idea that any other language is excluded," he said.

Republicans accused of undermining the Inhofe amendment include Brownback (Kan.), Chafee (R.I.), Coleman (Minn.), DeWine (Ohio), Graham (S.C.), Hagel (Neb.), McCain (Ariz.), Murkowski (Alaska), Snowe (Maine), Specter (Penn.), Voinovich (Ohio), and Warner (Va.).

That was from 2006 and is found here.

Now for the flip-flop ... from a Republican primary debate on Univision Dec 9, 2007:

Q: Do you think that there would be a practical value of making English our official language?

A: I think the most practical value is to make English used by all Americans and all citizens, and all who come here. The only way we move up the economic ladder from the bottom rung is to know English. And I would emphasize the importance of every person who comes to this country to become a citizen and enjoy its liberties & beauty is to learn English. And I will do everything I can to help them do that.

Source

#9) Gun Control: Obama is a perfect example of the stereotypical, liberal gun grabber. Obama has pledged to "Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons," has "opined unequivocally that D.C.'s ban was 'constitutional'," and in 1996, Obama, in a survey, "supported banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns." If you're an opponent of the 2nd Amendment, who believes law abiding citizens shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves, Obama is your man.

Another issue I would disagree with Obama on, and again, it's an issue that must pass Congress, and whether Obama likes it or not, the NRA is more powerful at lobbying Congress than he realizes. A pledge is one thing ... having the political capital to get it done is quite another.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Fine.

Keep in mind though, that your non-vote for Mccain is basically equal to a vote for Obama/Clinton.

I'm just going to make it easy and vote for Obama. LoL The Republicans need 4 more years to find a better nominee than John McCain and the Forked Tongue Express.

I got a kick out this short clip of McCain getting a little worked up over a reporters question. He's upset because this NY Times reporter is asking about the reports from back in 2004 of him being John Kerry's VP pick. At first he told the NY Times he didn't have the conversation, though now he's admitted and states very adamantly that "everyone knows" he had the conversation about it. Then he gets all condescending by explaining what a private conversation is vs a public conversation ... as though the reporter doesn't know the difference.

I love the reporters last question ... priceless.

Click Here

By the way ... I can't wait for the general election debates. I'm starting an office pool to guess when McCain's temper gets the best of him. For the sake of entertainment and to show whether or not McCain can handle pressure and tough questions in a dignified way, I hope Obama pushes his buttons and makes McCain go off on one of his red-faced, expletative-laced tirades.

Should be fun. LoL

[scotty]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

The President a couple months ago sent up a budget that breaks records in regards to spending, and yet now McCain is in favor. Tell me, where is the balance of the tax cuts and less spending in the new 3+ TRILLION $$ budget the President sent to Congress?

...

I am assuming your personal budget goes down on a yearly basis?

Every budget , every year is higher than the last, its called the cost of living increase.

Mute point.

[Pressing-On]

[QUOTE=chaotic_resolve;409550]I've heard this excuse used over and over by the Forked Tongue Express to try and reason why they've flip-flopped on the tax cuts ... it simply doesn't work. The President a couple months ago sent up a budget that breaks records in regards to spending, and yet now McCain is in favor. Tell me, where is the balance of the tax cuts and less spending in the new 3+ TRILLION $$ budget the President sent to Congress?

Simply put, John McCain needs to pander to the conservative party and his votes against the Bush tax cuts, coupled with his already well-documented romance with the Democratic Party, put him at dangerous odds with the base he needed to win the nomination.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

The Top Nine "Changes" Barack Obama Would Make as President

#1) Weakening America's Military: Barack Obama has pledged, among other things, to make defense cuts during war time, to cut spending on national missile defense, that he won't weaponize space, to slow development of future combat systems, and to seek a "world without nuclear weapons." Is this a man who can be trusted as Commander-In-Chief?

World without nukes sounds good to me. Defense spending quite frankly is out of control, regardless of wartime or not. The Pentagon and defense department have received huge increase after increase with each years budget under Bush. Meanwhile the economy here suffers.

#2) Losing the War in Iraq: Obama is promising to throw away the hard earned gains our troops have made in Iraq by immediately removing combat brigades each month, regardless of the situation on the ground, and by having all of our "combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months."

Iraq needs to grow up and take responsibility for itself. America shouldn't, nor can it afford, to stay there indefinitely. I honestly doubt Iraq will ever be a western-type democracy.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff publicly warned Barack and, for that matter, Hillary that they could create a "chaotic situation" with their policy that could take the "gains we have achieved and struggled to achieve and turn them around overnight." Come on, Admiral, don't you know that Obama isn't going to listen to what the military has to say about a war when there's an election to be won?

Anyone that thinks Obama can or will do this overnight is sadly mistaken. This freshman senator will need all the support from Congress and other government departments in his term ... there's no way he'll go and alienate even the moderates in his own party that would agree, albeit begrudgingly, that the surge is working.

#3) Gay Marriage: Although Barack Obama claims to oppose gay marriage, in 2004 he said that he opposed the Defense of Marriage Act, which is the only thing keeping the courts from imposing gay marriage on the whole country. If you want to see gay marriage become the law of the land in your state, no matter what the voters think, vote for Obama.

Voters have the voice in the matter, as does Congress. For any law to pass recognizing gay marriage, it has to pass Congress. The Republicans won't allow it. This is a non-issue.

#4) Pro-Partial Birth Abortion: It's never a surprise to find a Democrat who's a big fan of abortion, but Obama goes above and beyond the call of duty. He had a perfect rating of 100% from NARAL in 2005, 2006, and 2007, opposes "notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions," and he even opposed banning partial birth abortions. If you want to see as many women as humanly possible in this country putting their own children to death via abortion, vote Obama.

"...a big fan of abortion...?" While I highly doubt Obama is a "fan" of abortion, I'm sure he feels he is right in his adamant support of woman's rights. I completely disagree with him on this issue, but it's a ridiculous stretch to say he's a "fan" of abortion.

#5) Legalizing Marijuana: Obama, a former (we hope) druggie, who has admitted to using marijuana and cocaine, has said that he favors "decriminalizing marijuana." Perhaps you can't blame him for wanting to make it easier for people to get drugs since, after all, he used them and look how he turned out. If Barack gets into the White House, one day mothers all over America can tell their children that they'll never be anything in life if they use hard drugs and those children can reply, "Well, at least I can be President!"

First, Marijuana is hardly a "hard drug." Secondly, it should have been legalized years ago. There's no reason why Alcohol should legal but not marijuana. I wish Congress would pass a bill legalizing it so our jails and prisons would be less burdened by simple pot offenders and our law enforcement not placed in harms way over a stupid and petty pot bust.

#6) Handing 845 billion dollars of your money to other nations: Obama's Global Poverty Act would commit the United States to spending, over the next 13 years, 845 billion dollars more than what we already do on global poverty. Obama followed that up with a release that said in part, "It must be a priority of American foreign policy to commit to eliminating extreme poverty..." If Obama actually believes that not only is the United States capable of "eliminating extreme poverty," but that we should actually make that utopian dream a "priority," then he's far too naive to be in the White House.

I would disagree with Obama here also. I don't believe it's America's job to make the world a happy, healthy, poverty-free place. I believe some things, like Bush's Aids budget (8.1 billion by 2010) is a good thing that has helped an incredible amount of people. However, most nations are big enough or have the resources enough to help themselves. Their problem is their governments or dictators are too busy lining their own pockets to help their citizens.

#7) If you think George Bush is a big spender, you haven't met Obama: Even though the United States is already running a deficit, Obama is planning to push a whole host of new big government programs including a "10-year, $150 billion program to establish a green energy sector," a "$60 billion National Infrastructure Reinvestment Bank," and a "nearly universal health care plan (whose annual price tag he low-balls at $50 to $65 billion)." If you're all for tax and spend liberalism and watching the deficit spiral even further out of control, there's no one you should want in the White House more than Obama.

Again ... must pass Congress. I don't give a rip about what Obama wants to do because it must pass the votes of Congress. On this, the Republicans have a pretty good record at stopping Democratic Presidents' money-grabbing programs. What Republicans can't do, however, is find the courage to do the same when a Republican is President.

Example ... Bush's creation of No Child Left Behind or the Medicaid Prescription Drug Benefit program would not have passed, I believe, were it brought to Congress by a Democratic administration.

This is why I'm less worried by Obama being elected than McCain. Republicans would stand up to Obama, while they wouldn't against McCain.

cont ...

cont...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

#8) Amnesty and your tax dollars for illegal aliens: Believe it or not, John McCain, the Republican who is most closely associated with catering to illegal aliens, is actually well to Barack Obama's right on the issue.

Obama favors drivers licenses for illegals, wants to give illegals welfare and Medicaid, wants to let them participate in Social Security, opposes making English our national language, and he favors a comprehensive approach to illegal immigration, AKA amnesty, that even John McCain now claims to oppose.

Don't kid yourself ... John McCain is mad as all get-out that his amnesty package wasn't passed. He wanted that done to secure his votes with Latinos and while he may tell the base he's against amnesty ... if you listen to what he says on the issue, it's the same thing as he tried passing before - only he prefaces it by saying he now understands and is for enforcement first.

Here's some info ... McCain doesn't want English as the official language either.





That was from 2006 and is found here.

Now for the flip-flop ... from a Republican primary debate on Univision Dec 9, 2007:



Source

#9) Gun Control: Obama is a perfect example of the stereotypical, liberal gun grabber. Obama has pledged to "Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons," has "opined unequivocally that D.C.'s ban was 'constitutional'," and in 1996, Obama, in a survey, "supported banning the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns." If you're an opponent of the 2nd Amendment, who believes law abiding citizens shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves, Obama is your man.

Another issue I would disagree with Obama on, and again, it's an issue that must pass Congress, and whether Obama likes it or not, the NRA is more powerful at lobbying Congress than he realizes. A pledge is one thing ... having the political capital to get it done is quite another.

I'm just going to make it easy and vote for Obama. LoL The Republicans need 4 more years to find a better nominee than John McCain and the Forked Tongue Express.

I got a kick out this short clip of McCain getting a little worked up over a reporters question. He's upset because this NY Times reporter is asking about the reports from back in 2004 of him being John Kerry's VP pick. At first he told the NY Times he didn't have the conversation, though now he's admitted and states very adamantly that "everyone knows" he had the conversation about it. Then he gets all condescending by explaining what a private conversation is vs a public conversation ... as though the reporter doesn't know the difference.

I love the reporters last question ... priceless.

Click Here

By the way ... I can't wait for the general election debates. I'm starting an office pool to guess when McCain's temper gets the best of him. For the sake of entertainment and to show whether or not McCain can handle pressure and tough questions in a dignified way, I hope Obama pushes his buttons and makes McCain go off on one of his red-faced, expletative-laced tirades.

Should be fun. LoL

You are correct. It will be fun.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts simply because the cuts were not balanced out with less spending. That was his issue and he was right about that.

There is also the matter of maturity and experience. This is McCain's biggest gift to the Clinton campaign. An Obama-McCain contest would be seen as a match of inexperience against old age. Obama hopes to win this competition by invoking the spirit of John F. Kennedy. What he forgets, however, is that Kennedy was swept to power on the crest of the baby boom, when the largest group of voters was in its twenties. Today these boomers are in their sixties or seventies - and will not take kindly to the charge that Mr McCain is too old to be president. Given the high propensity to vote among the elderly, this election will not be decided by a baby boom but by a senility surge.

Voters loyal to President Bush also see in McCain a man who stood firm on the Iraq war. Voters who dislike Bush see a man who criticized the president on the conduct of that war. This is useful.

So, I guess we know where your votes are going!

[chaotic_resolve]

While parties stood and applauded, it means nothing. Democrats applauded because it's something they're for. Meanwhile Republicans applauded because not to do so would look bad for them.

Simply put, political parties will always support their own, even in disagreements. The State of the Union is a nationally televised event, and there's no way any Republican would want the headlines to be about them sitting on the President's initiatives.

About the NY Times reporter vs McCain exchange ...

Check out FoxNews.com and their reporters take on the exchange. The fact that McCain is now acknowledging a personal conversation with Kerry regarding VP is new information. Previously McCain only admitted that overtures or something similar was made to his staff. He never stated that he and Kerry spoke personally on the issue.

The reason for the question is it was brought up at a rally ... McCain gave new information, so the reporter asked a question, which even the FoxNews reporter said visibly upset or struck a nerve with McCain.

McCain was defensive and aggressive at the beginning ... as a result of the question ... not as a result of any cheap shot. The question was relevant and John McCain did not want to "talk straight" about. Instead he became indignant and caused a bigger scene than if he would have simply answered the question.

Never have, never will vote for McCain. It's not so much the Straight Talk Express he's riding as it is the Forked Tongue Express.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

While parties stood and applauded, it means nothing. Democrats applauded because it's something they're for. Meanwhile Republicans applauded because not to do so would look bad for them.

Simply put, political parties will always support their own, even in disagreements. The State of the Union is a nationally televised event, and there's no way any Republican would want the headlines to be about them sitting on the President's initiatives.

About the NY Times reporter vs McCain exchange ...

Check out FoxNews.com and their reporters take on the exchange. The fact that McCain is now acknowledging a personal conversation with Kerry regarding VP is new information. Previously McCain only admitted that overtures or something similar was made to his staff. He never stated that he and Kerry spoke personally on the issue.

The reason for the question is it was brought up at a rally ... McCain gave new information, so the reporter asked a question, which even the FoxNews reporter said visibly upset or struck a nerve with McCain.

McCain was defensive and aggressive at the beginning ... as a result of the question ... not as a result of any cheap shot. The question was relevant and John McCain did not want to "talk straight" about. Instead he became indignant and caused a bigger scene than if he would have simply answered the question.

Never have, never will vote for McCain. It's not so much the Straight Talk Express he's riding as it is the Forked Tongue Express.

Here's a YouTube clip from 2004 on the issue. Kerry never comes out and says it's true. He skirted the issue. That's lying, IMO. The last portion of the interview is typical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVQEaUZDjiU

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ron

So, I guess we know where your votes are going!

You're getting awfully bruised up around here. lol