UPC found in Wikipedia under "Schisms & Splits"

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I think they teach another Jesus other then the one the Apostles taught.

OK.
But even if we say that is the case...if God is still filling people with the Holy Ghost under their ministry, couldnt we take that to mean that God does'nt see their doctrinal error to be enough for Him to withhold His Spirit from them?

And back to the original question, if they're baptized in His name and filled with His Spirit, are they not saved, according to the scriptures? Sems like it to me.

(Just trying to think this through here.)

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I've heard that. I'm not convinced. It seems to me that their perspective on the same Jesus is a bit skewed. But, if every oneness believer was lost because of a skewed understanding of the One God, Jesus, there would not be very many oneness believers saved.

To teach Jesus had no biological tie with the human family is heresy not a difference of opinion. To have His flesh as some demi-god by creation instead of being the seed of the woman will lead to Twoness eventually but if it never does it is still heresy plain and simple. I think it borders on Gnosticism denounced by the Apostle John.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I think they teach another Jesus other then the one the Apostles taught.

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I've heard that. I'm not convinced. It seems to me that their perspective on the same Jesus is a bit skewed. But, if every oneness believer was lost because of a skewed understanding of the One God, Jesus, there would not be very many oneness believers saved.

Good point. If you asked 5 different UPCI apostolics to define the Godhead, you might get 5 somewhat different answers. Doesn't mean they're not saved.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Good point. If you asked 5 different UPCI apostolics to define the Godhead, you might get 5 somewhat different answers. Doesn't mean they're not saved.

This is NOT the same. This doctrine attacks redemption at it's basic core. The seed of the woman-Abraham-David is our redeemer Teke's Jesus has NO ties to any of them.
Jesus becoming man is the doctrine of the Godhead Teke's doctrine teaches Jesus was NOT really a man.
Teke's doctrine denies the virgin birth and just makes Mary an incubator only.
Teke's doctrine acutally denies Jesus has come in the flesh thus he is a anti-christ.
Teke's doctrine places him outside the Apostolic church.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

To teach Jesus had no biological tie with the human family is heresy not a difference of opinion. To have His flesh as some demi-god by creation instead of being the seed of the woman will lead to Twoness eventually but if it never does it is still heresy plain and simple. I think it borders on Gnosticism denounced by the Apostle John.

Agreed...

However heresy for the sake of heresy alone will not condemn a person neccessarily, depending on the extent of the heresy.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Agreed...

However heresy for the sake of heresy alone will not condemn a person neccessarily, depending on the extent of the heresy.

This heresy makes him an antichrist.

[Apprehended]

Well, as as I said before....

I really don't know. I've thought much about it.

I would like to think that all two or three million Ethopians are saved and that their doctrine will be straightened out in heaven...as some of mine and yours too will probably be straightened out.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Well, as as I said before....

I really don't know. I've thought much about it.

I would like to think that all two or three million Ethopians are saved and that their doctrine will be straightened out in heaven...as some of mine and yours too will probably be straightened out.

I would say 2 or 3 million people as uneducated as they are there would not have a clue but these false teachers do. God can sort them out.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I would say 2 or 3 million people as uneducated as they are there would not have a clue but these false teachers do. God can sort them out.

Amen. That's right.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Well, as as I said before....

I really don't know. I've thought much about it.

I would like to think that all two or three million Ethopians are saved and that their doctrine will be straightened out in heaven...as some of mine and yours too will probably be straightened out.

I think some of these doctrines are so complicated I have a hard time following this convoluted doctrine myself I doubt if very few comprehend very little of it and that probably is their salvation. But the teachers are a different story.