Where are the ultra libs?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

LOL! I am glad you are'nt God - thats for sure!

Saul/Paul slaughtered the early church, yet I say I am no more (in fact I am less) worthy of eternal life than Saul.

It is only through the cross of Christ my friend - all other rightousness not only falls short - it stinks!

Well said, Stephen. many are just too Pharisaical to see the truth.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Joelel

I don't think a person can be saved and be a lib.

You don't think???

Herein lies the problem.

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Interesting question.
Not sure what the answer is. Maybe its just one of those things.

I notice even in the secular/political world, we see something similar.

1/ Most conservatives will have no problem describing themselves as such, but many liberals will say they "dislike labels" and dont want to be described as liberals. Others prefer to call themselves "progressives", as if liberal is now a dirty word to them.

2/ The media makes frequent reference to "right wing extremists" in society and politics, but rarely to the "left wing extremists" among us... or they'll use the term "right wing conservatives" but not "left wing liberals".

Just an observation/my 2 cents ...

Thanks, TR. You actually addressed the point of the thread

[CC1]

Originally Posted by TrmptPraise

I searched the term ultra liberal here on AFF. Result: 1. Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

In an arena that we seem to find a need to place Oneness Apostolics into their own political niche, I find it interesting that we have placed and emphasis on the conservative views, even to calling some ultra cons, but yet I never hear the description ultra liberal.

As for me, I tend to find myself somewhat conservative, but I certainly don't line up with the ultra conservative. I believe in modest dress, but wear short sleeves. My wife and daughter wear dresses/skirts, but a skirt with a slit is not out of the question. My wife and I both wear our wedding rings and watches, but we do not wear earrings, necklaces, or bracelets. I wear my hair short, my wife and daughter have uncut hair. I don't have facial hair, but I don't see anything against it. After all that, we do go to amusement parks (a recent topic) and I am pro-TV. Many of the ultra conservatives would say I am splitting hell wide open with my compromises while the liberal might say that I am placing too much emphasis on standards. This thread is NOT about that debate. We know that has been done.

Here are some questions assuming we are on the same page in regards to oneness, Jesus Name baptism, and the infilling of the HG with evidence of speaking in tongues:

1. Is the term ultra liberal off limits because of its negative connotations in secular society as it relates to Apostolics and politics? If so, why do we find ourselves attacking the ultra con more consistently? If not, why are we not proclaiming those with a farther left stance than most ultra liberals?

2. Does the person outside Pentecostalism look at all of us as conservative?

3. In our Apostolic circles, is there a need for the word liberal? Are there some who are more liberal in their conservative views? More conservative in their liberal views? (My mind goes to the word oxymoron here)

4. Is it just and reasonable to have the term ultra conservative without having its opposite, ultra liberal.


These are just some things that popped into my mind when I noticed never seeing the term and do not declare to have all the answers. I hope to hear some opinions on this without actually getting into debating the actual stances if that is possible.

To many Oneness Pentecosals / Aposotlics I am considered an "ultra liberal" but to 99% of the world or Christendom I am very conservative.

I have always felt the labels in Pentecost are reversed. I am really the conservative because I do not extrapolate through wild leaps in logic beyond what the Bible says when it comes to a dress code, etc. Those called conservative in Pentecost are really more like "liberals" if you are doing an analogy to the political world. They believe in dictating peoples lives down to details through corporate legalism and adding to the Bible just like liberal judges do to the United States Constitution.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

While a bit liberal on OP church standards, the world looks at these brothers as Ultra Cons - hard core right wing religious nuts - thats what they are.

Bingo!

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Why do hot dogs come in packages of 10 and buns in packages of 8?

Easy, the makers of the buns want to force you to buy two packages, follow the money. lol

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by CC1

To many Oneness Pentecosals / Aposotlics I am considered an "ultra liberal" but to 99% of the world or Christendom I am very conservative.

I have always felt the labels in Pentecost are reversed. I am really the conservative because I do not extrapolate through wild leaps in logic beyond what the Bible says when it comes to a dress code, etc. Those called conservative in Pentecost are really more like "liberals" if you are doing an analogy to the political world. They believe in dictating peoples lives down to details through corporate legalism and adding to the Bible just like liberal judges do to the United States Constitution.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

Ultra-Con: Three-stepping, holiness-standard-keeping, NO TV, A glass of wine would send you to hell - Feels powerful by controlling - Needs tight box to stay saved.

Cons: Three-steppers and holiness-standard-keeping, closet-TV-watchers

Moderates: Three-stepping, a little jewelry OK, might be able to trim hair, not sure... wholesome TV probably OK...

Liberals : Stays out of others backyards. Probably have strong personal (standard) convictions in some areas, but realizes each Christian has his/her own convictions. Loves his fellow brethren, despite their differences. Believes in the 3-step work, but probably believes you become ONE OF HIS at the point you give him your life. Lets God be the judge, and allows the Holy Ghost to lead and deliver.

Hmmm.... can you guess which one I am???

Great post!!!

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by StMark

TP,

believe me there are a multitude of ultra libs on here.
we even have a few universalist- they believe that everyone is going to haven no matter what - even hilter

Homerun Mark.

[TRFrance]

I think it a lot of this probably stems from the idea/perception (right or wrong) that conservative = old fashioned/backward/harsh, etc, and liberal = open minded, non-judgmental etc.

Based on that way of thinking, libs tend to like to "point the finger" at "ultra"-cons etc.. kind of like sticking a label on them, as if its a bad thing.

Meanwhile, conservatives are less inclined to point the finger and label the "ultra"-libs in the church. But I notices that many of the people we might describe as ultra-libs are people on the outside looking in. In other words, many of the ultra-libs end up leaving the mainline Apostolic denominations anyway, and end up going independent/chaismatic/non-denominational/even Trinitarian.

Besides, I've noticed many ultra cons simply call "ultra-libs" by other descriptions, like charismatic, "backliders" or whatever else comes to mind.

(I happen to be a moderate conservative, myself, so I dont really have a dog in this fight between the UL's and UC's)