Did John the Baptist Speak in tongues?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

I agree is it a post-salvation experience Sam, thank you.

Then like him you are incorrect.

[augustianian]

Originally Posted by Sam

John the Baptist, his mother and father, Simeon, Anna and others lived before this dispensation of grace. When the Holy Spirit came upon them or moved them or however He worked within, upon, or through them there was no record of "speaking with tongues." We are now living in a new dispensation. There are many actions of the Holy Spirit upon, within, and through folks since the new dispensation began (testator died). These works would be the Spirit drawing, opening up hearts, regenerating, baptizing (placing/plunging/immersing) into the body of Christ etc. Subsequent to salvation/regeneration, the Spirit leads, empowers, releases gifts etc. One of the manifestations of the Spirit's operation is speaking with tongues but this gift/manifestation has nothing to do with salvation/regeneration (it is post-salvation experience).

I would disagree with your conclusion concerning the distinctions you make between them and now (new dispensation) but I am comfortable with your conclusion concerning the work of the Holy Spirit today.

Good paragraph.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Walkbyfaith7

The main point is this:

John the baptist had the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb and yet never recorded did he speak in tongues.

How does this verse fit in?

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

(This was spoken after John the Baptist's in-the-womb experience, obviously.)

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Mizpeh

IOW some people will not be content to believe tongues are the witness that one has received the baptism of the Holy Spirit unless every where in scriptures in which it is recorded that someone is filled with the Holy Spirit that it is also recorded that that person/s spoke with other tongues as well.

Why do you think a person would be resistant to this? You think it's stubborn-ness, willful resistance and rebellion to the Word of God? Why would a person who loves God and the Word of God with all their heart and who has received the baptism of the Spirit and feels that it is a necessary enduement of power that every believer has access to and needs, in other words NOT an option .... be so resistant to the teaching that tongues are the test and the proof of salvation?

[Subdued]

Originally Posted by Felicity

Why do you think a person would be resistant to this? You think it's stubborn-ness, willful resistance and rebellion to the Word of God? Why would a person who loves God and the Word of God with all their heart and who has received the baptism of the Spirit and feels that it is a necessary enduement of power that every believer has access to and needs, in other words NOT an option .... be so resistant to the teaching that tongues are the test and the proof of salvation?

Felicity, do you believe that receiving the Holy Ghost is required for salvation? I'm having trouble figuring out if you are trying to say that the HG is important but not "required," or if you're saying that tongues is not the evidence or proof that one has recieved the HG. So I guess my questions are; #1) In your opinion, is tongues the evidence that one has received the HG? And #2) IYO, is the HG a requirement for salvation (that one is not saved without it)?

You've probably answered these questions before... sorry if that's the case; but would you mind answering them for me here/now?

Thanks!

[Subdued]

Thanks for your reply, Felicity. I appreciate you answering so thoroughly. (BTW, I have no intention of debating you. )

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Subdued

Thanks for your reply, Felicity. I appreciate you answering so thoroughly. (BTW, I have no intention of debating you. )

Oops! You read that post before I deleted it. I thought I'd think a little more about the answer I typed out for you.

Guess I'll have to post it again - as I wrote it - now that you've responded to what I wrote. LOL.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Subdued

#1) In your opinion, is tongues the evidence that one has received the HG? And #2) IYO, is the HG a requirement for salvation (that one is not saved without it)?

Yes, I have addressed your questions and thoughts many many times. LOL. But I'll answer briefly and quickly here the questions you present. I don't plan to get involved in discussion or debate though just to let you know up front. There's no point.

1. Tongues is the initial sign one has received the baptism of the Holy Ghost but I believe Spirit reception happens prior to the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

2. Well, of course a person can't be saved without the work of the Holy Ghost in and on their life. It's impossible. However, there are different works/operations of the Spirit, and there is scripture to affirm this.

I believe that a person is regenerated by the Spirit of God before they ever receive the the anointing and baptism of the Holy Ghost with the sign of speaking in tongues. Regeneration results in a transformed life and a transformed mind that submits itself to the Word and the will of God, rejects sin and follows after Jesus Christ. And it is proof that there has been a regenerative/born again work of the Holy Spirit in a person's life and this usally happens before a person ever speaks in tongues. The baptism of the Spirit follows as we wait on that and the initial sign is "tongues".

Do I believe that the baptism of the Spirit/tongues is necessary for salvation? No. Do I believe that every person who hasn't spoken in tongues will spend eternity in hell? No.

But I believe that EVERY believer needs this experience -- that's it's essential -- for the same reason that Jesus commanded His disciples they needed to be endued with power from on high. It's for an anointing of power and the work of ministry and for witnessing.

The disciples were told to "wait" to be endued with power on high that would equip them for ministry. Not to be saved or born again.

Hope this helps. I know that it's hard for people who've been taught that you're not born again or regenerated until you speak in tongues to understand that there are different works or operations of the Spirit. The baptism of the Spirit is not for salvation. It is for anointing and power.

I have prayerfully and honestly through the years - since I was just a young person - done my best to accept the "tongues or hell" position but the teaching is problematic. I know people find problem with the way I believe too. There are questions with both views of salvation but I find that my view is more consistent with practical experience and with Scripture than the "tongues or hell" position.

That's pretty much how I see it and how I feel Scripture teaches.

God bless you Sis! And you are welcome!

Originally Posted by Subdued

Thanks for your reply, Felicity. I appreciate you answering so thoroughly. (BTW, I have no intention of debating you. )

[augustianian]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

How does this verse fit in?

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

(This was spoken after John the Baptist's in-the-womb experience, obviously.)

If I can throw my 2 cents in...

It means, in the context of this thread and in the context of the scriptures themselves, that John the Baptist had the Spirit and these did not......yet.

But by saying they did not have the Spirit... should not be taken to mean that such an interpretation is applicable to today. In my opinion, if circumstances such as in John 7 can be said to exist today then the verse would apply. However, circumstances are not the same so the conclusion should be different. In other words, believing and receiving the Holy Spirit should not be viewed as two distinct operations because as scripture is clear believing IS a work of the Holy Spirit.

No matter, though, because Jesus is clear that when one believes he is...
1. Called by the Father.
2. Given to the Son.
3. And resurrected on the last day.

Before or after John 7, or before or after Acts.

a

[Jekyll]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Is this the evidence of being filled with the Spirit?

In the womb? What do you think?