Smoking

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by tbpew

Yes, because it can not be done with agreement with everything else we understand in the scripture, that is, it can not be done in faith.

Since it is an outside chemical, being burned, to be inhaled, to accelerate its entry into our blood stream, we are adding an agent into our bodies to alter the chemical contents within our blood. It is our own will being asserted to create a pleasure response (through ingesting a chemically active agent) that contradicts sustainable wellness of the body. For a spirit-filled believer, the body is the tabernacle of God, holy, set apart. Motive is the issue that causes this activity to invite sin to "sit outside the door", if not actually, inviting sin to have its place within our life choices.

Viewed from a perspective within the natural realm:

1st witness:
The witness of our body's initial response
Our lungs reject the presence of this agent until the we do it so long that our body's own rejection system ceases to react.

2nd witness:
The pain of withdrawal.
When the chemical levels drop, the pain and anxiousness is a plain demonstration of "cause and effect".

3rd witness:
the operation embraces a total physiological experience; hands, mouth and chemistry. Two very powerful physical activities that quickly become habitual, in the process of ingesting an addictive chemical. Crude example for those of us with kids....just think about how hard it is to break a child's nose picking habit once fully explored and enjoyed!)

Smoking is certainly in the mix of things that every individual will decide for themselves. But for anyone who seeks the scriptures (led by the Spirit) for wonderful counsels, smoking would be understood as a work of the flesh; authored in the realm of carnal-mindedness.

oh, by the way....this is just me sharing my understanding

Sooooo, are you gonna tell me who you are, Mr New Poster?

I'm enjoying your posts immensely.

[Digging4Truth]

Hey TBP....

I didn't know you were posting in this thread or I would have been keeping up with it.

Great posts as always...

Well thought out... balanced... and worthy of being put in a syllabus somewhere.

Yep... That's TBP.

Stop by my forum again when you get a chance. I bumped a thread you may have missed... if notl... no biggie... but it had been there a while when you stopped by the other day. So I bumped it... just in case.

Now I am serious when I say this bro.... You should write small bible study booklets on various subjects. Smoking, drinking, Are The Vessels God ( ) Dude I would SO be your best customer.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Sooooo, are you gonna tell me who you are, Mr New Poster?

I'm enjoying your posts immensely.

Pastor Poster,

Thank you for the kind words.

I am a little "freakish" about trying to maintain virtual anonymity.
I really, really, really would like what we write to be a discussion of ideas, viewpoints and understandings rather than persons.

I engage topics that some might consider heretical and some might even say, cause division. I can not disagree with this interpretation possibly being true since (by way of example) if someone says "God has appointed sub-heads among members of his body that has ONE head, and I do not think that he has, my words are introducing thoughts that separate from the words of those that believe differently.

All this ends up being a great chance for people to want to decide if they agree with me or not with me, rather than considering whether they agree with my comments or, disagree with my comments.

Forum boards do not possess enough "genuine-ness" to be overly specific about my private person.

The cool thing is that I believe it is pretty safe to say..."from the abundance of the heart, the fingers type!

BTW, I am very appreciative of those who may know me, understanding and granting me the opportunity to have a certain degree of anonymity.


If someone felt they had to expose my "real-life " identity, I would want to understand what their motive was in doing so.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Hey TBP....

I didn't know you were posting in this thread or I would have been keeping up with it.

Great posts as always...

Well thought out... balanced... and worthy of being put in a syllabus somewhere.

Yep... That's TBP.

Stop by my forum again when you get a chance. I bumped a thread you may have missed... if notl... no biggie... but it had been there a while when you stopped by the other day. So I bumped it... just in case.

Now I am serious when I say this bro.... You should write small bible study booklets on various subjects. Smoking, drinking, Are The Vessels God ( ) Dude I would SO be your best customer.

wow. Thank you for the very kind acknowledgement.

But when it comes to discussion boards and presenting ideas with carefulness and respect of others, you have been a model for me. I have often been encouraged by your style of gentle and thoughtful engagement.

I have shared with my wife my appreciation that God has allowed me to meet you through the medium of online forum boards. She read some of your posts on your board and immediately sensed what I was talking about.

I love you man (that is about as gooshy as I get)

[Whole Hearted]

Those who don't preach against TV, immodest dress, women in pants, make-up, sports, etc, WHY preach against cigarettes?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by tbpew

wow. Thank you for the very kind acknowledgement.

But when it comes to discussion boards and presenting ideas with carefulness and respect of others, you have been a model for me. I have often been encouraged by your style of gentle and thoughtful engagement.

I have shared with my wife my appreciation that God has allowed me to meet you through the medium of online forum boards. She read some of your posts on your board and immediately sensed what I was talking about.

I love you man (that is about as gooshy as I get)

Perhaps we will meet some day...

Then we might get in an arguement and have a free for all beat down right in the middle of a restaurant. NOT!!!!!!!!!!

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Those who don't preach against TV, immodest dress, women in pants, make-up, sports, etc, WHY preach against cigarettes?

Who would NOT preach against immodest dress.

The other things you listed are things. Immodest dress is a concept.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

Those who don't preach against TV, immodest dress, women in pants, make-up, sports, etc, WHY preach against cigarettes?

I probably can not satisfactorily reply to your post because "preaching against" probably means something very specific to you that may be hidden from me. Here is my attempt...

Preaching that edifies by sharing understanding "light" needs to be received as "light" by the hearer. If choices are going to be made subsequent to the "preaching", they are fully made in the heart of the hearer.

IMO preaching is not a vehicle to establish prohibitions; rules and manners for dress and conduct, but rather an avenue for the gifting God has provided to his body to have an occassion to be manifested in various hearer's ears.

So, if preaching is received or purposed as addressing specifics, it is very very limited in its ability to bless the hearer. If preaching is a source of light, the hearer can move through whatever circumstances they encounter with the added safety provided by a gifting of God at work within his body.

Cigarettes are a specific that can be used for an example of principles demonstrated in scripture.

BTW, I fully agree that IF preaching's ordained purpose is to DELIVER SPECIFIC do's and don'ts (fence construction) among spirit-filled children of God, your question would have to be answered by those who operate in a pretty overt inconsistency.

but contrast...
If preaching is to lead the hearer into considering the principles and motives behind the actions that manifest in our lives, cigarettes just become a commonly understood, visible effect, of something that has its origins within the invisible.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by tbpew

I probably can not satisfactorily reply to your post because "preaching against" probably means something very specific to you that may be hidden from me. Here is my attempt...

Preaching that edifies by sharing understanding "light" needs to be received as "light" by the hearer. If choices are going to be made subsequent to the "preaching", they are fully made in the heart of the hearer.

IMO preaching is not a vehicle to establish prohibitions; rules and manners for dress and conduct, but rather an avenue for the gifting God has provided to his body to have an occassion to be manifested in various hearer's ears.

So, if preaching is received or purposed as addressing specifics, it is very very limited in its ability to bless the hearer. If preaching is a source of light, the hearer can move through whatever circumstances they encounter with the added safety provided by a gifting of God at work within his body.

Cigarettes are a specific that can be used for an example of principles demonstrated in scripture.

BTW, I fully agree that IF preaching's ordained purpose is to DELIVER SPECIFIC do's and don'ts (fence construction) among spirit-filled children of God, your question would have to be answered by those who operate in a pretty overt inconsistency.

but contrast...
If preaching is to lead the hearer into considering the principles and motives behind the actions that manifest in our lives, cigarettes just become a commonly understood, visible effect, of something that has its origins within the invisible.

Ok tbPew....let me also add my welcome to you, to this forum.

Your wisdom and insight are a refreshing and needed ingredient's to this forum continuing to grow and becoming an even more interesting place.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Ok tbPew....let me also add my welcome to you, to this forum.

thanks for your greeting.

I am not sure that I am built for the standard pace of things here (contrary to my lapse into 'chat-yak' demonstrated last night on two threads --it was enjoyable!).

Just a question; did you have the same screenname on FCF (or maybe GNC)? If not, please know I'm not wanting to probe, but I am curious. Back on FCF I vaguely remember a style (and SN?) that seems reminiscent of yours.