Does a NonFounding pastor have the right to decide whether

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The "affiliated" statement is absolutely correct. However in trying to answer Chosen's question, you've got to look at the variables as well.

Ever since the merger churches have been using the "Recommended Church Constitution" from the UPC Manual as the by-laws for the local assembly - even if the church was NOT affiliated. So it's likely that the hypothetical church Chosen is considering has this or some derivative form as its by-laws.

It all comes down to the local church's by-laws.

And Joseph Miller is correct. No ethical pastor would pull his church out of affiliation without a vote. He stands to lose the church property, his income and face an audit like you wouldn't believe if he doesn't follow the by-laws.

Your by-laws can say just about anything you want them to say. It's just you have to follow those by-laws or risk the 501(c) protection.

i already put that "unless it is in the by-laws of the church" in another post before that

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Chosen

the church stays UPCI or leaves without having a church vote???

If the founding PASTOR is not the present Pastor then he should have no say whatsoever. It is God's church and he will be rewarded for what he did as Pastor during the time he served.

As far as leaving the UPCI...the church should vote and the majority rule.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Brother Price]

Forgive me, but I thought the Church was Christ's, and we are ALL apart of it. Since when does organizational matters concern who we are of? I mean, we are of Christ!

Nuff said!

[Joseph Miller]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Forgive me, but I thought the Church was Christ's, and we are ALL apart of it. Since when does organizational matters concern who we are of? I mean, we are of Christ!

Nuff said!

Bro. Price that is true, but at the same time, local assemblies are affiliated with organizations. We are discussing how they should leave that fellowship. Either way they are still part of THE CHURCH.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Forgive me, but I thought the Church was Christ's, and we are ALL apart of it. Since when does organizational matters concern who we are of? I mean, we are of Christ!

Nuff said!

Brother Price,

Your view is simplistic at best. The UPCI is enmeshed in church, families, ministries, ect. It is a very difficult decision when one leaves, and an even more difficult one to return.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Brother Price]

Well, whatever direction the Lord leads me, I am His. I'll just KISS (Keep It Simple Saints).

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I would not sit under a pastor I could not trust...

Sister Alvear the issue is not about trust, it is more an organizational and procedural issue, and in this current atmosphere one misstep can and will affect many souls.

Bro Price I wish it would be as simple as "kiss" but as almost everything man sticks his hands in he muddys up and then one has to be careful from there on.

[pelathais]

The fact remains, if the church is affiliated then to disaffiliate would require a vote of the members of the congregation in a business meeting to which the District Superintendant or his representative has been called.

No way around it. And if the District thought that the church was worth going after, then the disaffiliating pastor would risk the property by skirting the law. And it is "the law." Every 501(c) tax exempt corp must have by-laws and they must follow those by-laws. People are in jail right now because they tried to play games with the system.

For all practical purposes, any UPC church presently seeking to disaffiliate would probably have a slam dunk vote any ways. That's the climate in those churches and that's the way they want to go. So be it. And I'm sure almost every pastor knows enough that he will jump through whatever hoops he needs to in order to accomplish his goal.

For the few who might have a problem, well... I don't recommend rolling the dice. You've got everything to loose, maybe even your own soul.