Revisiting the "PANTS" Issue

[StillStanding]

This is a more godly women's restroom sign that should be used in churches.

[Encryptus]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I think it expresses a cultural norm pretty well. But I think it's shaky ground to base a biblical standard...on a bathroom door sign. Besides...cultural norms are changing. There's no telling what will on bathroom doors in 100 years.

When dealing with standards we need to stay in the Bible as much as possible.

Originally Posted by Encryptus

Why wait a hundred years! The women I know buy their clothes in the WOMEN's section of the department stores.

The cultural norms about what qualifies as women garments have obviously changed since the merge of '45.

As for the purists who believe such things to be immutable I don't see many of the men running around in dresses, er robes.

Bump for GH

Originally Posted by Encryptus View Post
Why wait a hundred years! The women I know buy their clothes in the WOMEN's section of the department stores.

The cultural norms about what qualifies as women garments have obviously changed since the merge of '45.

As for the purists who believe such things to be immutable I don't see many of the men running around in dresses, er robes.

You're right, styles and clothing will change. I don't know, maybe we'll make more sweeping changes in the UPCI as time goes on. But dresses and skirts have been worn by women for ages...I don't see them going out of style. For all we know society might swing back into a more classical style where women mainly wear dresses and skirts. Regardless...I think a modest dress or skirt is far more modest than most pants. Though I have seen some pants more modest than some dresses too. I think I would relegate this to a pastoral conviction. Follow your pastor's lead.

[Encryptus]

AMEN.

By all means make it pastoral conviction.

Lord help us is any of these things ever became a matter of PERSONAL conviction !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Encryptus

AMEN.

By all means make it pastoral conviction.

Lord help us is any of these things ever became a matter of PERSONAL conviction !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ultimately it is. We have a few ladies who come to our church who wear pants and pant suits. They are typically dressed nice and respectable. Our pastor believes in ladies wearing dresses and skirts but he isn't going to run these ladies out of the church. But I'd say that odds are that they will not be permitted to praise sing, greet, or serve in leadership though. But that's his call.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Ultimately it is. We have a few ladies who come to our church who wear pants and pant suits. They are typically dressed nice and respectable. Our pastor believes in ladies wearing dresses and skirts but he isn't going to run these ladies out of the church. But I'd say that odds are that they will not be permitted to praise sing, greet, or serve in leadership though. But that's his call.

What if they wore them outside of the church but wore a dress to church services and events ? would they be allowed to participate then ?

A lot of the younger UPC pastors ( from what I am told) are not going to enforce dresses outside of the church

Originally Posted by StMark

What if they wore them outside of the church but wore a dress to church services and events ? would they be allowed to participate then ?

A lot of the younger UPC pastors ( from what I am told) are not going to enforce dresses outside of the church

I don't know. I don't think our pastor's the kind of guy who would prevent them from singing or greeting as long as they wore dresses or skirts in church. He's pretty patient and easy going with people.

[Encryptus]

Originally Posted by StMark

What if they wore them outside of the church but wore a dress to church services and events ? would they be allowed to participate then ?

A lot of the younger UPC pastors ( from what I am told) are not going to enforce dresses outside of the church

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I don't know. I don't think our pastor's the kind of guy who would prevent them from singing or greeting as long as they wore dresses or skirts in church. He's pretty patient and easy going with people.

Interesting. Institutionalized double standards.

Think it will catch on????

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Encryptus

Why wait a hundred years! The women I know buy their clothes in the WOMEN's section of the department stores.

The cultural norms about what qualifies as women garments have obviously changed since the merge of '45.

As for the purists who believe such things to be immutable I don't see many of the men running around in dresses, er robes.

Yup. The arguement that pants are considered men's clothing just does not hold water and hasn't for the last 30 years.

The new paradigm should be to look at pants on women vs pants on men with the same distinction given to men's shirts vs. womens blouses.

Woman's pants are cut very different from men's pants to fit women properly and most are styles or prints that men wouldn't be caught dead in (i.e. flowers on the material or capri's).

Then some are the same material and function like blue jeans but again the cut is different and there is as much distinction between men and women's jeans as there is men's shirts and blouses.

Plus what about all of those Pentecostal men and women wearing T Shirts?????? Where is the distinction there?

I also find it amusing all of the Pentecostal men who claim pants are more sensuous on women. I find that really hard to believe since pants cover up the bare flesh and shapely shape of a woman's leg.

I find a well built pretty woman much sexier in a dress and find slacks on a woman more practical and many times more modest.

Of course is some woman is wearing her pants way too tight that is not true but that would be the same case with a woman wearing a dress or skirt way too tight also.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

I don't know. I don't think our pastor's the kind of guy who would prevent them from singing or greeting as long as they wore dresses or skirts in church. He's pretty patient and easy going with people.

The trend I'm seeing is, many churches are beoming more locally minded. In years past we all did things as a fellowship. Pants would definitley( and still is for the most part) and question of fellowship. But I see many churches becoming more independant of the organization.

They would probably clean 'em up and get "lined up" before taking them to a fellowship meeting though