Question about Acts 2:38: What about the martyrs?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Matters not to me. Lol

and it matters not to wii. so the salt has lost its savor.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I said I dealt with the details and reasoning of why the cross alone saves. Then you chimed in and said the heat of the Bible is in Quran, after which I said it denies salvation by the cross. So you lost the actual point of the chat with wii.

The question always was is salvation by works is condemned or not. You never saw that point.

oh, i saw that that was your perspective a long time ago; and my reply was that let's admit, God does not come ask us whether anyone is lost or not, so your opinion on the matter is just that, and really only reflects your premises, not the state of their salvation. Would the Good Samaritan have passed your test? I doubt it. How about the First Son? Nope. Maybe the surprised sheep, chosen in the Separation of Sheep and Goats? Sorry.

Originally Posted by mfblume

The way you keep pointing to Job and the good Samaritan, the more it's evident you also don't look to the work of God.

um, what?

Originally Posted by mfblume

Then you really showed that, when you said salvation by works is on the level of little issues like incest, rather than attacking the core of the bible. The core!

The core! the core! lol, explained already. If you grasp this, and are lost, what difference if someone who does not have your same exact understanding, but is accepted? There is a problem alright; and it is yours--for exactly as long as you have the problem.

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's far from memorizing a word. It's a monumental change of entire life to believe God did the work to save us. But you've already shown the cross is insignificant by lowering it to something like not committing incest. So the whole chat about world's contrasted from faith makes you categorize that faith with the issue of no incest.

i did not conflate the two, or did not mean to; there was a valid point in the answer, and you just choose to read it a certain way, to suit yourself. Apparently even the explanation does not clarify it for you, so what is the point? There is only one way, Christ died for our sins, and being comfortable in saying "they are lost," or even thinking that in your heart, is a big, lit sign that you have not accepted it. You are forgiven, also.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Circular reasoning. But anyway, you're not even trying to see the point I feel you miss, thinking you actually do see it but refuse to engage it.

my feelings exactly. This thread has become the subject of a group study, anonymized; you might do the same. I might have changed some of my responses, and so might you. Here a little, there a little. I might believe differently about some aspects in 5 years, and i might not, but i can tell you that i grew up believing "All Muslims are lost, because look at this passage," and when it finally got down to just the 4 of us, i got wise. If you believe the same way about God that you did 5 years ago--and i don't care if you are 115--then you are dead. I still have many, many things to discover about God, now.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Since God saves, no one can be higher than another. Think.

now we are close to being on the same page here. You might possibly pm wii, and invite him back, and don't let him go until you have learned why God put him in your path.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Since you cannot get our point, nothing you say is relevant here.

i'm kind of glad this came up. This statement is cousin to "All of you are lost," in that it precludes any further learning from someone deemed "inferior," when quite obviously we have something to learn from prostitutes and/or tax collectors, their habits notwithstanding. David was "the apple of God's eye," yet he was a murderer and a philanderer. Can we learn nothing from him?

Originally Posted by mfblume

You're committing the accusation you made of me.

for purposes of illustration, yes. And is has cost me. As i said, you are perfectly fine. I apologize. You are forgiven.

Originally Posted by mfblume

He came to correct views of Muslims. He came to prove Muslims aren't really behind terrorism. I get his point. But he didn't expect a challenge about salvation by works. He said he'd be back again with others if the issue of terrorism kept going. He never left because of anyone accusing anyone of hell bait.

He could not deal worn salvation by works. It genuinely boggled him. He at least saw the point, and the contrast was unexpected.

that is a characterization from your perspective, and i'm sure his would be different; assuming we are talking about wii. People confuse works with good deeds, also. But to get his perspective, you would only have to put yourself in the place of the Good Samaritan, having done his good deed, leaving the inn, and running across the priest, who informs him that he is lost because he does not agree with the priest on a certain passage. What could possibly be said to this priest in reply? Since laughing hysterically would be taken as rudeness, i mean.

See the possibility that the Good Sam's good deed did not save him, but rather indicated that he was saved, that he "got it." The priest had all of the correct technical details, and had obviously passed some man-made tests to become a priest, but he did not get it. We make salvation waaay more complicated than it needs to be. Have a good day.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Just because you tell someone they will die lost unless they repent. Has nothing to do with superiority. It means you love them enough to tell them they are wrong. You are all hung up with enabling people, and poo pooing around people's feelings. That sounds like "Im ok your ok" touchy feely mess that could get a fly high. I was glad when they said unto me, let us go to the house of the Lord. Being part of New Age UFO cults might work for your friends at Starbucks, but in the real world it just doesn't get the job done.


Live long and pasta

i hope you come to see that any statement may be taken in different ways, and that how we read or hear them reflects our premises. You will die lost unless you repent. This has nothing to do with superiority, i just love you enough to tell you that you are wrong. I am not now, and never was, interested in enabling...Muslims, let's say; and i have repeatedly stated that this is not about their state of salvation, which i would certainly never attempt to assess by their doctrine anyway.

This is, and can only ever be, about the condition of the heart that feels so confident as to do so. Yes, you might get an attack of the hippies or whatever, until you come to some equilibrium again--but you are going to get why Christ liked being alone--and i posit that many who read this dislike being alone with no distractions for more than a few minutes. But that is another thread. I try to live by example, not judgement, and it is hard. Everything i thought i was has pretty much disappeared. If your persona is developed, and you have a comfortable identity within a social group, that would preclude you walking out your door without a purse or extra sandals--figuratively, even--then see that these may be holding you back. Have you ever met anyone who could not move out of state, even for a dream job or whatever? They have to read any even positive stories about people who move out of state for dream jobs with a certain eye. So, read what you will read.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i hope you come to see that any statement may be taken in different ways, and that how we read or hear them reflects our premises. You will die lost unless you repent. This has nothing to do with superiority, i just love you enough to tell you that you are wrong. I am not now, and never was, interested in enabling...Muslims, let's say; and i have repeatedly stated that this is not about their state of salvation, which i would certainly never attempt to assess by their doctrine anyway.

This is, and can only ever be, about the condition of the heart that feels so confident as to do so. Yes, you might get an attack of the hippies or whatever, until you come to some equilibrium again--but you are going to get why Christ liked being alone--and i posit that many who read this dislike being alone with no distractions for more than a few minutes. But that is another thread. I try to live by example, not judgement, and it is hard. Everything i thought i was has pretty much disappeared. If your persona is developed, and you have a comfortable identity within a social group, that would preclude you walking out your door without a purse or extra sandals--figuratively, even--then see that these may be holding you back. Have you ever met anyone who could not move out of state, even for a dream job or whatever? They have to read any even positive stories about people who move out of state for dream jobs with a certain eye. So, read what you will read.

Shazeep, your post above is unintelligible, you are either on a heavy dosages of psychotropic medication, or your UFO cult has placed you on a 40 day fast with nothing but ganja and bong water to live on.

Is this a picture of the Sunday school in your UFO cult?

[Servant's <3]

That was a South Carolina beauty pageantesque questions post. Lol

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Shazeep, your post above is unintelligible, you are either on a heavy dosages of psychotropic medication, or your UFO cult has placed you on a 40 day fast with nothing but ganja and bong water to live on.

Mmmkay, well wadr i notice that you aren't asking for clarification, but reply with something simple, and easy to comprehend; i hope that serves you.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Mmmkay, well i will say that your posts are usually pretty simple, and easy to understand; i hope they serve you.

Shazeep, again, you are mixing apples with thorazine. You have absolutely failed to prove your argument. You are trying to convince us that the Bible's soteriology is what causes a government empire to move forward in global domination. Did this happen with Muhammad when he led the Arab tribes against their pagan neighbors? Didn't the Arab Muslims desire conquest? Did the Muslims use Christian Soteriology as an excuse to spread their dominion by the bloody blade of conquest? What about Imperial Rome starting with Julius Caesar? When he crossed the Rubicon stream, he didn't do it motivated by Christian soteriology? Genghis Khan wasn't motivated by Christian Soteriology as he moved his Mongol hoards westward. I think you have way too much Peter Joseph going on in your head. Even Aldous Huxley understood that religion is beneficial to a people, and is not necessarily the scapegoat everyone would like to make it out to be. In the picture you posted, you claim that they are Christians motivated by Zionists to rape and pillage Muslim countries? But be honest Shazeep, you know better than that, you have already mentions bankers in previous postings, therefore you understand that if you follow the money, you know the true cause. Unless you are just parroting the mainstream Zeitgeist pablum puking rhetoric which you just hear, but never quite fully understand.

You see, you are just another change agent being use by the media machine to do their bidding. You cow tow to their rhetoric and like a heat sinking missile or tunnel rat, you seek out and find those who believe in Bible truth. Not to learn anything, but to muddy the waters and confuse the bigger issues. Edward Bernays would be proud!

[mfblume]

To equate salvation by works with incest says it all. Along work purposely talking past people. ..

S, how can superiority exist when God does the work?

[shazeep]

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Right on shazeep that is a meme totally fit for YOU.

[shazeep]

thought that was apt, myself

Originally Posted by mfblume

To equate salvation by works with incest says it all.

i have already explained that you are mischaracterizing that, like twice, so "says it all" is an unintended double entendre, i guess. Take it how you like.