**** Are the NCO and AWCF "raiding" the UPCI or providing a "safety net"? ****

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Spanish-speaking preachers can match any of these wind bags!!!! I've sat thru quite a few marathons myself ... but for the most part I do see that many more preachers are cognizant of time.

Worldly minded. Not eternity minded.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Prior to the UPCI debating resolution 6 on the floor of General Conference, in Columbus, Ohio, in the fall of 2006 .... Kenneth Philips, Jonathon Suber and Wendell Hutchins began a partnership that resulted in the formation of a loose ministerial fellowship called the New Church Order. The NCO website was launched and called for an new era of post-denominationalism and end to exclusionary fellowship & organizational politics. The NCO also has be been advocating technology as an important tool to evangelizing the entire world.

By the winter’s end, they claimed close to 1000 members and had launched an internet-based television and webcasting venture called Acts 29 TV. The NCO has also effectively used email and blogs to communicate their agenda and group interactions.

Ministers nation-wide, from various organizations, and independents, have joined the NCO, including many UPCI ministers.
Some UPCI ministers who have not been shy about their cooperation w/ the NCO are Randy Hollis, Kentucky … Joe Hunt, CA … Anthony Langston, New Jersey … and Glenn Purvis, Georgia.

There are unconfirmed rumors that the NCO is aggressively recruiting present and former UPCI ministers behind the scenes. While some supporters of the NCO see the fellowship is providing a voice and viable option.

Meanwhile, the leaders of NCO have also joined an existing, more established, ministerial fellowship called the AWCF, a fellowship claiming a constituency of more than 180 organizations, 20,000 minister and 5 million believers world-wide.

In the fall of 2006, the AWCF and their presiding Bishop S. Smith welcomed Bishop Phillips, Suber, Hutchin and Tekelemarian with much fan-fare. These new members admission was splattered on the homepage of AWCF’s website, www.awcf.org.

One of the NCO leaders told this poster that the reason for his decision to join the AWCF was because he felt that ministerial accountability is vital.

Since then, there has been increased cooperation between Bishop Smith’s AWCF and the triumvirate leading the NCO. Smith has spoken at NCO events and the NCO leaders began speaking on the AWCF circuit. The AWCF’s bishop also partially funded Suber’s recent missions trip to Africa.

In May of this year, Suber, Huthins and Philips were featured keynote speakers at the AWCF’s 2007 World Congress. The 36th Annual World Congress was held May 2nd, 3rd & 4th, 2007 at the Centre in Evansville, Indiana USA .

Bishop Phillips stirring message to the AWCF Congress on Thursday, May 3rd, has apparently made him the new darling of the AWCF.

I encourage you to listen to the last ten minutes of his message here.
http://www.awcf.org/media-archives.html

During the last 10 minutes of Phillips message to the AWCF members he passionately and convincingly made arguments about how technology mediums are a God-ordained gift to this generation, as they were to the 1st century church, to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world.

He also said that in prayer God had revealed to him that he should join the AWCF. Phillips also stated that he had been waiting for over 30 years for a fellowship like the AWCF that was willing to embrace technology and is evangelism-focused.

He also publicly announced his submission to the authority of the AWCF’s presiding bishop and its other bishops. He asked them to instruct him as to what they wanted him to do.

[I will transcribe some of his remarks from Phillip's message later.]

Hutchins and Suber followed on Thursday. Suber, interestingly entitled his revival-style message “Welcome to the Revolution’, a popular mantra within the NCO. You can access both of their messages to the AWCF Congress here -
http://www.awcf.org/media-archives.html

Enter the summer of 2007.
[ *** we are only weeks away from the UPCI’s General Conference in which the “technology issue” is on everyone’s mind]

Recently, both the NCO and AWCF have published an article on their websites written by a UPCI minister called Randy Hollis entitled “The Emancipation of Issaac”.

You can read the article here. There is a thread discussing it's contents here.

The Hollis article is critical of what he describes as a “falling away” within the Apostolic movement which he attributes to the legalism of ultraconservative ministers. Hollis, on his website, randyhollis.com, has brought attention to the TV debate and his reservations about the present direction of his organization. He asserts that his fellowship's present decision making process is "rules-based' and not "principle-based".

Here are the questions I have:

1. Have the NCO and AWCF been opportunistic in taking advantage of the internal struggles within the UPCI. Are they “raiding” the org or are they providing a “safety net” for disgruntled moderate to liberal ministers within the org?

2. Why are these organizations posting such an article on their websites? Are they using the current state of discontent within the UPC to their favor? Isn't this a very aggressive move on their part?

3. Does anyone have information to corroborate the unconfirmed rumors that the NCO and or the AWCF are being aggressive in recruiting or in offering a safety net?

4. What if Bishop Phillips became the presiding Bishop of not only the NCO but the AWCF? What effects would this have on the Apostolic Oneness movement as a whole?

Bump for my friend, Chicago Pastor.

[tv1a]

Studies show that people retain at best an average of 10% of what they hear. Why blow 90% of hot air just for 10% of substance? Length of sermon is no indication of quality of sermon. Most marathon preachers could cut their sermons 75% and still be as effective.

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

She must have fallen asleep right at the end...just couldn't take any more.

You are probably right about the hour and half messages being behind us. Why! With much of today's preaching, about fifteen minutes would be plenty long enough. Empty words entering empty heads of empty lives.

[RandyWayne]

Studies show that people retain at best an average of 10% of what they hear. Why blow 90% of hot air just for 10% of substance? Length of sermon is no indication of quality of sermon. Most marathon preachers could cut their sermons 75% and still be as effective.

Based on most "hard preaching" I have heard, the actual percentage that you could cut out would be 95% (a very literal number) and still have all the substance.

[tv1a]

The style of preaching doesn't make that much difference.

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Based on most "hard preaching" I have heard, the actual percentage that you could cut out would be 95% (a very literal number) and still have all the substance.

[RandyWayne]

I would beg to differ. Again, only going by my personal experiences on hard, sweaty, fire and brim stone preaching I have heard, it is a virtual vacume of substance. It is about shouting 10 or so crowd-pleasing, rally-causing verses (should take a poll on the top 10 guaranteed to produce a long applause/praise/clapping moment), all the while repeating the title of the sermon, then after an hour or two, sitting back and letting the accolades stream in.

[tv1a]

As a fairr and balanced individual, I see both sides of the spectrum. This epidemic of little substance is on both sides.

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I would beg to differ. Again, only going by my personal experiences on hard, sweaty, fire and brim stone preaching I have heard, it is a virtual vacume of substance. It is about shouting 10 or so crowd-pleasing, rally-causing verses (should take a poll on the top 10 guaranteed to produce a long applause/praise/clapping moment), all the while repeating the title of the sermon, then after an hour or two, sitting back and letting the accolades stream in.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Monkeyman

Ok, what was the location and event for the video of Phillips at AWCF. Is this the TV they are promoting, my lord if so, they need Si Si Jaun in a hurry. I mean that is baaaaad video. Not much in attendance by the look of the joint, people getting up and walking out during a 'high point' in his talk, bad lighting. Man if these cats are to be leading the way, who is following, seriously. It looked bad. A internet service from POA makes these dudes look like an access cable show. It looked like a rented hall at a Holiday Inn in New Jersey, (sorry new jersey).
I would be a yes vote in Tampa, but if this is what we are going to see, sheeesh!

I'm no longer a "vote" one way or the other... but you make an excellent point.

What's the point of going on television if your broadcast just makes you look bad? They really need to do things right and provide tools for local churches like pre-produced commercials and such. I almost cringe already when I think of what some people would do with a little TV exposure.

[thesonofdavid]

The purpose of AWCF, to my understanding, has not been to compete with UPCI, etc, but to be an meeting place of all Aposotolic organizations.

[thesonofdavid]

The purpose of AWCF, to my understanding, has not been to compete with UPCI, etc, but to be an meeting place of all Aposotolic organizations.