Why I Am A Futurist - Page 37

shag · #**361** 02-13-2015, 05:50 PM

That view would mean the words "some standing here won't die", have no purpose (a few days or weeks? How misleading!) and can be removed from our bibles.

The "connecting" word "assuredly" or "verily" has no purpose, so it can be removed from our bible.

And Jesus goes from 2000+ years in the future vs 27(?)to instantaneous a few days away(vs28) in the same breathe & The word verily/assuredly lost it's intent and means nothing?

If I'm mistaken please correct me, but how can someone just disregard this stuff, and pretend they have no purpose for being said by Jesus?

And why is it that "seeing" Jesus literally is demanded in Matt 24, but "seeing" Jesus literally is not demanded nor believed in Matt 16:28 if it's supposedly Pentecost?

Transfiguration 6 days later and Jesus basically said some would die first???

No disrespect intended at all to anyone, I just cant grasp that..

Michael The Disciple · #**362** 02-13-2015, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shag

That view would mean the words "some standing here won't die", have no purpose (a few days or weeks? How misleading!) and can be removed from our bibles.

The "connecting" word "assuredly" or "verily" has no purpose, so it can be removed from our bible.

And Jesus goes from 2000+ years in the future vs 27(?)to instantaneous a few days away(vs28) in the same breathe & The word verily/assuredly lost it's intent and means nothing?

If I'm mistaken please correct me, but how can someone just disregard this stuff, and pretend they have no purpose for being said by Jesus?

And why is it that "seeing" Jesus literally is demanded in Matt 24, but "seeing" Jesus literally is not demanded nor believed in Matt 16:28 if it's supposedly Pentecost?

Transfiguration 6 days later and Jesus basically said some would die first???

No disrespect intended at all to anyone, I just don't grasp that..

I cant speak for anyone else but Im not "pretending" the words have no purpose. The things Jesus and the prophets and apostles said were highly prophetic and enhanced by the Holy Spirit. Many things they said were just given by the Spirit and they had no control over how the omnipresent Holy Spirit would fulfill them.

Having said that I certainly dont claim to know everything there is to know. However I can turn the same kind of questioning around to "How could anyone pretend Jesus came and took the Church to Heaven in 70ad"?

How could anyone pretend we are now living in the 1000 year reign of Jesus and ruling the nations?

I was saved in the hope that Jesus would come and gather his people to be with him in the Heavenly Kingdom. Thank God I still have that hope!

And now again I ask the question that I asked in post number 1 of this thread.

If indeed Christ came in 70ad WHO ARE WE? WHAT RELEVANCE DOES THE BIBLE HAVE FOR US?

As the preterists so forcefully point out if something is spoken to a group of people NO OTHER GROUP CAN CLAIM IT IS FOR THEMSELVES!

Evidently Christians were a certain group of people who were saved by Jesus in the first century. Then he came and got them and took them to Heaven, even tho no one ever knew a thing about it. No one can look back and point out that hundreds of thousands or even millions of people disappeared from the middle east and Europe in 70ad.

As to us 2000 years later here we have found the writings that were given to THOSE PEOPLE and we are claiming them as if they were addressed to us!

What a pitiful people we are! Of course I speak as a fool. I can see why Paul said this doctrine had overthrown the faith of some. Im sure it is doing just that even today.

Sean · #**363** 02-13-2015, 06:46 PM

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.(the 11, except Judas)

Luke 17:20-21King James Version (KJV)

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:(coming invisible kingdom)

21 Neither shall(future) they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.(beginning at pentecost)

Romans 14:17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.(beginning at pentecost)

Michael The Disciple · #**364** 02-13-2015, 06:54 PM

362 posts have been written in this thread since I asked the full preterists who try hard to overthrow our faith in a future hope the question......if Christ came in 70ad WHO ARE WE?

What relevance has the writings of the Apostles concerning Jesus and his coming TO US 2000 YEARS AFTERWARDS?

Sean · #**365** 02-13-2015, 06:57 PM

See what you started Michael?....

mfblume · #**366** 02-13-2015, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

362 posts have been written in this thread since I asked the full preterists who try hard to overthrow our faith in a future hope the question......if Christ came in 70ad WHO ARE WE?

What relevance has the writings of the Apostles concerning Jesus and his coming TO US 2000 YEARS AFTERWARDS?

I am not full preterist but I know what they believe. You do have them all wrong. They believe Christ's second coming occurred then in a general resurrection of all those who died before. The resurrection was non-bodily. Souls slept until that date. When he came they rose from soul sleep and went to glory. The living saints went nowhere physically but were caught up in a spiritual ecstasy of some sort. And when each saint dies since then, there is no soul sleep but personal resurrection.

Sean · #**367** 02-13-2015, 08:14 PM

The living saints went nowhere physically but were caught up in a spiritual ecstasy of some sort. QUOTE MFBLUME

Some sort of spiritual ecstacy?

Hmmmm.....

Rev 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Thats what I call spiritual ecstacy, but they had to die a martyrs death to get it.

shag · #**368** 02-13-2015, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.(the 11, except Judas)

Luke 17:20-21King James Version (KJV)

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:(coming invisible kingdom)

21 Neither shall(future) they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.(beginning at pentecost)

Romans 14:17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.(beginning at pentecost)

So according to what you're saying, you do believe & acknowledge the belief that Matt 16:28' SEEING the son of man is NOT literally seeing him with their physical eyes, because nobody did. Is that correct?

I think the Judas theory is rediculous. Nvr even heard of it. Some means plural. Judas is not plural. So it doesn't work no matter how you dress it up as some a so called generalization statement.

Esaias · #**369** 02-13-2015, 08:54 PM

In 70 AD as Titus tore down the temple all the saints worldwide got goosebumps and did a praise break... and THAT was the rapture?

lol

shag · #**370** 02-13-2015, 09:14 PM

Mtd, I'm just trying to acknowledge the purpose of each word in scripture, and I am not trying to alter the obvious purpose of words in the text to fit a predetermined eschatological view. Who are we? The church. To say the bibles not for us is nuts imo, because there's letters written to folks w particular issues, we are not the faithful church in Philidelphia and the Lukewarm church in laodicea, skitsophrenically at the same time, but we can learn from their strengths or shortcomings to be better as his bride now.
Jesus is God, the God of the old came w clouds and judged in the old, why cannot he not do the same if he is God? Why not? If (matt16:27-28)Seeing the son of man is Pentecost and no one literally saw him, why can not the God of the new do the same as he did in the old, regarding coming in clouds of judgment?
I'm I phoning this so sorry if it's a little running together and I loose you.

You mentioned your hope in seeing Jesus, yet what about all the millions that have died convinced they would also see him before they died, was their hope in vain? After all Jesus said to those who look will see him a second time without sin into salvation, so did they all die in vain wasted hope since they nvr literally physically saw him b4 death?

In trying to figure out why if folks don't know the answer on some of this stuff why they don't just say "I don't know". Lotta stuff I don't know and I don't mind admitting it.