Rejoicing In the Sabbath:

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Sacred rhythms of rest.

Where in the NT are we commanded to take a day of rest or for worship?

No where, and that's the whole point we're trying to make...

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Well the day apparantly matter so much that God made note of it in Genesis, this was long befoere there was a religious covenant.

Also we must rembember that the Israelites kept the Sabbath way before there was a covent, for the covenant was establish at Mount Sinai, but the Sabbath was kept before that event.

So we know that before there was a religious covenant the day DID matter.

If something is establish only under a religious convenant, the rightfully it can be discarded when the covenant is not longer binding, but if something is established before the religous covenant, then it is rigth to assume that it still is valid, since it was established before.

The fact that the Sabbath was later added to the law with more instructions does not negate its validity.

So now, you're not arguing for keeping the law, but just the Sabbath?

Well, if you would consider this: Physical Circumcision was given way before the law came into place. So do you also teach physical circumcision?

How does this play into your reasoning? Why teach the keeping of a day and exclude physical circumcision?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

No where, and that's the whole point we're trying to make...

So, technically we don't have to go to church. I know that Jesus states that where two or more are gathered in His name, He is in their midst. I also know that we are not to foresake the assembling of the brethren.

So... a Christian family could choose to house church themselves. Correct?

[Aquila]

Listen….

I think the anti-sabbaticals are thinking that the Sabbatarians are claiming one must keep the Sabbath to be saved. Paul emphasized throughout the Epistles that we are not justified or made righteous by the Law. Please don’t think that all Sabbatarians believe that one must keep the Sabbath to be saved. Sabbatarians believe that the born again believer keeps the moral law of God by walking in the Spirit because he or she IS saved. The writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers demonstrate this.

However, there are among us Sabbatarians who believe in shedding all the trappings of the Roman Church. We don’t have a biblical precedent for meeting on Sundays. The truth is that “biblically” the early church met on the Sabbath (as an Apostolic custom). And what a more appropriate day to worship, physically rest, and reflect upon our spiritual rest in Christ than the Sabbath? I mean, Jesus is… “Lord of the Sabbath”. Why not choose to honor Him on the Sabbath?

The FACT is this…there wasn’t an issue until the Constantine’s Edict in 321 A.D. that resulted in an empire wide anathema against those Christians who still practiced the “Apostolic” custom of meeting on the Sabbath. This is where this theological war began. This is the reason why there is contention on this issue. The Sunday Keepers are the first to historically denounce Christians who didn’t choose to meet on Sundays. The Sunday Keepers have kept this perspective until the recent Evangelical Movements in the 20th century. Only recently have Sunday Keepers far and wide begun to cry that it doesn’t matter what day we worship on . They are ringing the bell of peace and making it seem like Sabbatarians are devisive… when it was the declaration of the “veneral day of the sun” (Sunday) that opened this entire conflict up. And sadly… many Sabbatarians have DIED down through history because of it. Sunday is a day that is soaked with the blood of martyrs. It’s a day that was forced upon the church by edict. And though Christians have every right to worship on any day they choose…many are deeply convicted that Sunday be rejected on these grounds.

The Sabbatarian point is this… let’s get back to the Bible. Let’s meet as the early church did. Let’s value what they valued. Let’s shed as much of the Roman Catholic baggage as possible.

[johnny44]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes. The commandment speaks of rest and worship. Not eating, gathering food, healing, or doing good.

The commandment speaks of not working on the seventh day Exodus 20.
The Lord was angry with the people when they went to gather food to eat on the seventh day Exodus 16:27-28.The apostles went to gather food on the seventh day and Jesus didn't have a problem with them not keeping the Sabbath the only ones that were upset were the Pharisee's.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Listen….

I think the anti-sabbaticals are thinking that the Sabbatarians are claiming one must keep the Sabbath to be saved. Paul emphasized throughout the Epistles that we are not justified or made righteous by the Law. Please don’t think that all Sabbatarians believe that one must keep the Sabbath to be saved. Sabbatarians believe that the born again believer keeps the moral law of God by walking in the Spirit because he or she IS saved. The writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers demonstrate this.

However, there are among us Sabbatarians who believe in shedding all the trappings of the Roman Church. We don’t have a biblical precedent for meeting on Sundays. The truth is that “biblically” the early church met on the Sabbath (as an Apostolic custom). And what a more appropriate day to worship, physically rest, and reflect upon our spiritual rest in Christ than the Sabbath? I mean, Jesus is… “Lord of the Sabbath”. Why not choose to honor Him on the Sabbath?

The FACT is this…there wasn’t an issue until the Constantine’s Edict in 321 A.D. that resulted in an empire wide anathema against those Christians who still practiced the “Apostolic” custom of meeting on the Sabbath. This is where this theological war began. This is the reason why there is contention on this issue. The Sunday Keepers are the first to historically denounce Christians who didn’t choose to meet on Sundays. The Sunday Keepers have kept this perspective until the recent Evangelical Movements in the 20th century. Only recently have Sunday Keepers far and wide begun to cry that it doesn’t matter what day we worship on . They are ringing the bell of peace and making it seem like Sabbatarians are devisive… when it was the declaration of the “veneral day of the sun” (Sunday) that opened this entire conflict up. And sadly… many Sabbatarians have DIED down through history because of it. Sunday is a day that is soaked with the blood of martyrs. It’s a day that was forced upon the church by edict. And though Christians have every right to worship on any day they choose…many are deeply convicted that Sunday be rejected on these grounds.

The Sabbatarian point is this… let’s get back to the Bible. Let’s meet as the early church did. Let’s value what they valued. Let’s shed as much of the Roman Catholic baggage as possible.

This is it exactly.

I have never, even after this thread, heard a good argument for Sunday worship, I believe because one does not exist.

When we get right down to it most all Sunday worshipers give not any thought at all to WHY they worship on Sunday... It's just tradition... and once one has a look at why that tradition is in place it is hard to support Sunday worship in good conscience.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Listen….

I think the anti-sabbaticals are thinking that the Sabbatarians are claiming one must keep the Sabbath to be saved. Paul emphasized throughout the Epistles that we are not justified or made righteous by the Law. Please don’t think that all Sabbatarians believe that one must keep the Sabbath to be saved. Sabbatarians believe that the born again believer keeps the moral law of God by walking in the Spirit because he or she IS saved. The writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers demonstrate this.

However, there are among us Sabbatarians who believe in shedding all the trappings of the Roman Church. We don’t have a biblical precedent for meeting on Sundays. The truth is that “biblically” the early church met on the Sabbath (as an Apostolic custom). And what a more appropriate day to worship, physically rest, and reflect upon our spiritual rest in Christ than the Sabbath? I mean, Jesus is… “Lord of the Sabbath”. Why not choose to honor Him on the Sabbath?

The FACT is this…there wasn’t an issue until the Constantine’s Edict in 321 A.D. that resulted in an empire wide anathema against those Christians who still practiced the “Apostolic” custom of meeting on the Sabbath. This is where this theological war began. This is the reason why there is contention on this issue. The Sunday Keepers are the first to historically denounce Christians who didn’t choose to meet on Sundays. The Sunday Keepers have kept this perspective until the recent Evangelical Movements in the 20th century. Only recently have Sunday Keepers far and wide begun to cry that it doesn’t matter what day we worship on . They are ringing the bell of peace and making it seem like Sabbatarians are devisive… when it was the declaration of the “veneral day of the sun” (Sunday) that opened this entire conflict up. And sadly… many Sabbatarians have DIED down through history because of it. Sunday is a day that is soaked with the blood of martyrs. It’s a day that was forced upon the church by edict. And though Christians have every right to worship on any day they choose…many are deeply convicted that Sunday be rejected on these grounds.

The Sabbatarian point is this… let’s get back to the Bible. Let’s meet as the early church did. Let’s value what they valued. Let’s shed as much of the Roman Catholic baggage as possible.

Amen. We consider sunrise as the beginning of the day, when it is not. There are many similar examples of our incorrect premises.

Making Saturday, the last day of the week in our calendar, your busiest day, and then resting on the first day of the week, Sunday, is _______. Everyone must fill in this blank for themselves, but you might remember that we still practice circumcision, which is not a Commandment, and mostly ignore the Sabbath, which is. Personally, my word is perverted.

How about some relevant Scripture with "days," since that one that imo you are misinterpreting with "days" in it seems so powerful for many:
"You would think to change times, and days." Which even a child should be able to gather means "You aren't gonna, not for long. You are anti-Christ, and you might fool some for a minute, but you will not prevail." Where do you stand, personally, in this little equation? Do you believe this Scripture is directed at anyone other than Rome?

While there is Biblical allowance for Grace superceding the Sabbath observance, you might consider whether you want to take advantage of an allowance so freely. My study of this tells me that I can do this and not be condemned--although I'm finding this hard to stretch over those who supposedly have knowledge; this strikes me as an allowance FOR THE IGNORANT-- but I would definitely, obviously miss the benefits, imo, and in my experience.

I don't believe you will be condemned for Sunday observance, or eating pork. I never bring this up to people in my witness, and in fact studiously avoid it. Grace is the important thing, and I believe we are to show Grace to those ignorant of it, the lost, the sea, the jungle-dwellers. And not be overloading them with relatively pointless observance at inappropriate times. But there comes a point in our walk when knowledge should prevail, and a higher truth realized, and I believe taking advantage of an allowance then is backing up, or standing still?

[johnny44]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Listen….

I think the anti-sabbaticals are thinking that the Sabbatarians are claiming one must keep the Sabbath to be saved. Paul emphasized throughout the Epistles that we are not justified or made righteous by the Law. Please don’t think that all Sabbatarians believe that one must keep the Sabbath to be saved. Sabbatarians believe that the born again believer keeps the moral law of God by walking in the Spirit because he or she IS saved. The writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers demonstrate this.

However, there are among us Sabbatarians who believe in shedding all the trappings of the Roman Church. We don’t have a biblical precedent for meeting on Sundays. The truth is that “biblically” the early church met on the Sabbath (as an Apostolic custom). And what a more appropriate day to worship, physically rest, and reflect upon our spiritual rest in Christ than the Sabbath? I mean, Jesus is… “Lord of the Sabbath”. Why not choose to honor Him on the Sabbath?

The FACT is this…there wasn’t an issue until the Constantine’s Edict in 321 A.D. that resulted in an empire wide anathema against those Christians who still practiced the “Apostolic” custom of meeting on the Sabbath. This is where this theological war began. This is the reason why there is contention on this issue. The Sunday Keepers are the first to historically denounce Christians who didn’t choose to meet on Sundays. The Sunday Keepers have kept this perspective until the recent Evangelical Movements in the 20th century. Only recently have Sunday Keepers far and wide begun to cry that it doesn’t matter what day we worship on . They are ringing the bell of peace and making it seem like Sabbatarians are devisive… when it was the declaration of the “veneral day of the sun” (Sunday) that opened this entire conflict up. And sadly… many Sabbatarians have DIED down through history because of it. Sunday is a day that is soaked with the blood of martyrs. It’s a day that was forced upon the church by edict. And though Christians have every right to worship on any day they choose…many are deeply convicted that Sunday be rejected on these grounds.

The Sabbatarian point is this… let’s get back to the Bible. Let’s meet as the early church did. Let’s value what they valued. Let’s shed as much of the Roman Catholic baggage as possible.

I believe the epistle of Barnabas was before Constantine and he wrote of them gathering on the eight day of the week.

[bbyrd009]

More creative perversion, if you ask me. An attempt to make the first day the last, sounds like just a warm-up for Rome, imo.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Making Saturday, the last day of the week in our calendar, your busiest day, and then resting on the first day of the week, Sunday, is _______. Everyone must fill in this blank for themselves.

My word was "convenient". My husband and I are both off work on weekends but he works Friday nights until midnight and finds it a sacrifice to rise 'early' for Sabbath service. More stores etc. have abbreviated hours and banks are closed on Sunday... So doing our 'errands' was easier Saturday.

We also run a farm and 90% of our sales were on Saturday... Many people don't want to come on Sunday because it interferes with church and what they consider their 'sabbath'.

It took some major rearranging to be able to observe Sabbath and God has repaid our meager sacrifice abundantly, as He always does