I learned how to use these terms from you...and very effectively I might add...
I always think of the scarecrow on Wizard of Oz when I see the word "strawman".
__________________ Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break into pieces. | Etienne de la Boetie
If I recall, she doesn't believe in the New Birth doctrine.
I thought I remember her saying that she didn't believe tongues was the only reliable evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.
It's not. How do you explain John the Baptist? There are a few others mentioned before the day of Pentecost as having been filled with the Holy Ghost but no mention of tongues.
Now, I'll agree that silence means nothing, however, if those people spoke in tongues in the presence of others, it seems to me that there would have been confusion conveyed by those witnessing that event.
I was in a church a few weeks ago and witnessed the pastor approach a young girl visitor who was about 13 yrs old. It was her second time in that church with no religious background. I watched and listened as he got in her face, put his hand on her head, and said to her, 'Lalalalalalalalala....say it.....lalalalalalalalala.....that's right........lalalalalalala'.
I was horrified. What's worse, he gets on the platform and announces that she spoke in tongues and received the Holy Ghost!!! Sorry, but I don't buy that.
What proves the Holy Ghost? Fruit. Fruit of the Spirit.
Just like seeing a tree, while you might not have seen it planted nor recognize the tree by the bark, when the fruit shows up, it's clear what kind of tree it is. No mistake.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
__________________ Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break into pieces. | Etienne de la Boetie
It's not. How do you explain John the Baptist? There are a few others mentioned before the day of Pentecost as having been filled with the Holy Ghost but no mention of tongues.
Now, I'll agree that silence means nothing, however, if those people spoke in tongues in the presence of others, it seems to me that there would have been confusion conveyed by those witnessing that event.
I was in a church a few weeks ago and witnessed the pastor approach a young girl visitor who was about 13 yrs old. It was her second time in that church with no religious background. I watched and listened as he got in her face, put his hand on her head, and said to her, 'Lalalalalalalalala....say it.....lalalalalalalalala.....that's right........lalalalalalala'.
I was horrified. What's worse, he gets on the platform and announces that she spoke in tongues and received the Holy Ghost!!! Sorry, but I don't buy that.
What proves the Holy Ghost? Fruit. Fruit of the Spirit.
Just like seeing a tree, while you might not have seen it planted nor recognize the tree by the bark, when the fruit shows up, it's clear what kind of tree it is. No mistake.
No one received the baptism of the Holy Ghost as we receive it in this dispensation before the Day of Pentecost.
"The Holy Ghost was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified."
Simple Biblical proof.
Then explain to me the difference in the Holy Ghost JTB, Elisabeth, and Zachariah had and what we have today.
Lu 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Lu 1:67
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,
Lu 1:15 (speaking of John the Baptist)
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Those three verses are the only ones before Acts 2 that show anyone being filled with the Holy Ghost. What meaneth this?
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I kid you not. I was right behind the girl and saw and heard everything. That info isn't supposed, assumed, nor second-hand info.
RIIIIIIGHT -- you're just bitter...
__________________ Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break into pieces. | Etienne de la Boetie
It's not. How do you explain John the Baptist? There are a few others mentioned before the day of Pentecost as having been filled with the Holy Ghost but no mention of tongues.
Now, I'll agree that silence means nothing, however, if those people spoke in tongues in the presence of others, it seems to me that there would have been confusion conveyed by those witnessing that event.
I was in a church a few weeks ago and witnessed the pastor approach a young girl visitor who was about 13 yrs old. It was her second time in that church with no religious background. I watched and listened as he got in her face, put his hand on her head, and said to her, 'Lalalalalalalalala....say it.....lalalalalalalalala.....that's right........lalalalalalala'.
I was horrified. What's worse, he gets on the platform and announces that she spoke in tongues and received the Holy Ghost!!! Sorry, but I don't buy that.
What proves the Holy Ghost? Fruit. Fruit of the Spirit.
Just like seeing a tree, while you might not have seen it planted nor recognize the tree by the bark, when the fruit shows up, it's clear what kind of tree it is. No mistake.
HO,
how can you make the assertion that John the Baptist being recorded as being filled with the spirit is equvilance to the new birth. Jesus testified of this not being the case by using a most contrary bit of understanding: "Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. "[Mt 11:11]
Please provide how you reconcile your understandings with Jesus' proclamation concerning John and those in the Kingdom of God?
All the old testament prophets spoke under the anointing of God's spirit. "Christos" was in operation but this operation was apparently "upon" rather than "in". You are attempting to make a comparison of two things that are not appropriate for use in such a manner.
Whatever anointing/unction/inspiration/stirring that John, Elizabeth, and all the prophets of old had, it was not the gift of the Holy Ghost, God promise to write his laws on our heart. The scriptures plainly state that the HOLY GHOST was not yet given:
Why?....because he was not yet glorified.
(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Even after Jesus was glorified, he breathed on his disciples that they should receive the Holy Ghost and it was STILL 40 days or more until they were endued with power from on high.
What happened to John and what happened to Elizabeth is fully consistent with what happened throughout all the OT prophetic manifestations, all of which make no assertion of the Spirit residing, making its abode, within the vessel. Again, I would say that the Spirit was UPON the prophet.
__________________
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath [James 1:19]
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