Noah and the Ark

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Aquila, YOU developed from natural forces. I'll spare you the details.

Technically, was God even necessary for "YOU?" No. Just a male and a female. And they didn't even have to love each other, or you or even believe in God. They just had to have the right number of chromosomes to produce viable human offspring. From there, it was all simple chemistry.

And yet, there you are.

A marvel of creation. The only possible "YOU" that could ever exist.

Some people never find any meaning in this. Others, find all the meaning in the world.

A single blade of grass doesn't bend with the wind unless God wills it.

[SlowFade]

The truth is that the Bible is full of myth and fallacy. It CANNOT be believed. It's been debunked thoroughly and I find it silly that so many wish to debate it. Here we see that even those who call themselves Christian are debunking it.

So here's my question. Since the Bible has been so thoroughly been debunked, why do any of you need to continue holding on to your invisible friend as security blanket? Face it. There is no God. No miracles. You're alone to live your life as you choose and you will face the results of your choices making your life enjoyable or painful.

It's time to grow up people.

If the test of a Christian is HONESTY an honest person would tell the truth. The notion of "God" is something that mankind needed in it's infancy. We don't need religion or god today.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Aquila

A single blade of grass doesn't bend with the wind unless God wills it.

That's nice poetry and a great allegory.

Though we do understand that a high pressure weather system in one area will cause wind patterns that seek to stabilize the high pressure with lower pressure systems in other areas.

The fibrous cellular structure of the grass stalk also makes it pliable to movements such as the wind and even the movements of passing animals. The weight of a grasshopper will cause the stalk to bend.

Ultimately, it is all "in God's hands" - however you'd be pretty silly to ignore all of the other forces.

[SlowFade]

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's nice poetry and a great allegory.

Though we do understand that a high pressure weather system in one area will cause wind patterns that seek to stabilize the high pressure with lower pressure systems in other areas.

The fibrous cellular structure of the grass stalk also makes it pliable to movements such as the wind and even the movements of passing animals. The weight of a grasshopper will cause the stalk to bend.

Ultimately, it is all "in God's hands" - however you'd be pretty silly to ignore all of the other forces.

How is it all in God's hands? How do you know this scientifically? You do well with understanding reality until you insist on an invisible friend.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by SlowFade

The truth is that the Bible is full of myth and fallacy. It CANNOT be believed. It's been debunked thoroughly and I find it silly that so many wish to debate it. Here we see that even those who call themselves Christian are debunking it.

So here's my question. Since the Bible has been so thoroughly been debunked, why do any of you need to continue holding on to your invisible friend as security blanket? Face it. There is no God. No miracles. You're alone to live your life as you choose and you will face the results of your choices making your life enjoyable or painful.

It's time to grow up people.

If the test of a Christian is HONESTY an honest person would tell the truth. The notion of "God" is something that mankind needed in it's infancy. We don't need religion or god today.

Originally Posted by SlowFade

The truth is that the Bible is full of myth and fallacy. It CANNOT be believed. It's been debunked thoroughly and I find it silly that so many wish to debate it. Here we see that even those who call themselves Christian are debunking it.

So here's my question. Since the Bible has been so thoroughly been debunked, why do any of you need to continue holding on to your invisible friend as security blanket? Face it. There is no God. No miracles. You're alone to live your life as you choose and you will face the results of your choices making your life enjoyable or painful.

It's time to grow up people.

If the test of a Christian is HONESTY an honest person would tell the truth. The notion of "God" is something that mankind needed in it's infancy. We don't need religion or god today.

I take issue with your assertion that "the Bible has been thoroughly debunked."

Also the statement that "those who call themselves Christian are debunking it." Look at the point-by-point analysis I made of some of Jason's fundamentalist style claims. Even with what I felt to be a serious inspection I ended up actually correlating the volcanism of the Dead Sea region with the "fire and brimstone" events of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

The Bible does present an accurate historical record. That can't really be "debunked" and never has been. The matters of faith often end up being "inconclusive" at best (or worst depending on what side you're on).

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by SlowFade

How is it all in God's hands? How do you know this scientifically? You do well with understanding reality until you insist on an invisible friend.

"Scientifically?" I can't prove it.

My "friend" isn't entirely invisible when I can see where He's been. The following is from a post on my blog site, I've posted similar statements here:

"Christian de Duve is a Nobel Prize winning biochemist and author of the book, Vital Dust. de Duve is a believer. Jacques Monod preceded de Duve as head of the world renown Pasteur Institute and also won a Nobel Prize for his work while mentoring de Duve. Monod was an atheist.

Both men worked in the same laboratories. Both men excelled in their field and won international fame and recognition. Both men even peered through the same microscopes and observed the same natural phenomena at work. Yet both men reached different conclusions about what they observed.

de Duve used the word "meaningfulness" to describe the world he saw. Monod, a friend of the Existential philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre, used the word "meaningless" to describe the world he observed.

This is the real debate that we should be having regarding the origins of the earth and mankind. As believers we should be observing the real world and declaring the "meaningfulness" that exists in all of our lives. Instead we find a tremendous amount of resources, time and energy are being used to propagate silly notions about a 6,000 year old earth and to deny the reality of the earth's natural history.

Let us embrace the real world and not a fantasy. Let us engage one another in real terms with real facts. There is still enough wonder in creation to make even an atheist gape in awe."

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by SlowFade

How is it all in God's hands? How do you know this scientifically? You do well with understanding reality until you insist on an invisible friend.

I see the same things you do - but I find meaningful purpose and a great deal of wonder behind it all.

[SlowFade]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I take issue with your assertion that "the Bible has been thoroughly debunked."

Also the statement that "those who call themselves Christian are debunking it." Look at the point-by-point analysis I made of some of Jason's fundamentalist style claims. Even with what I felt to be a serious inspection I ended up actually correlating the volcanism of the Dead Sea region with the "fire and brimstone" events of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.

The fundies are just as misguided as those who assert the notion of a supernatural being behind it all. There are natural processes at work and there is no need for a God. In fact, prove that there is a God. You can't. It's all subjective wishing and hoping.

And just because there was volcanism of the Dead Sea region that destroyed a couple cities it doesn't mean there was a God behind it. Was God behind Katrina? The tsunamis? Earthquakes in the world today? No. What happened was a catastrophe that ancient people couldn't explain that was attributed to God. It's like the volcanos throughout the Pacific islands that islanders attributed to a god. They threw virgins into volcanos to appease this god.

God didn't create the world in six days, nor did God make Eve from a rib, there wasn't even an Adam. You won't find God parting the red sea nor will you find Jesus rising from the dead, if he existed at all. Most likely he was a radical rabbi that was executed for blasphemy and treason against Rome.

The Bible does present an accurate historical record. That can't really be "debunked" and never has been. The matters of faith often end up being "inconclusive" at best (or worst depending on what side you're on).

The Bible presents a mythological interpretation of historical events. That's all. It's a story book from an ancient religion no different than any other religious book.

[SlowFade]

What I find funny is that you admit that the Bible is so outlandish it can't be believed and yet you cling to the God it supposedly describes. The agnostic "higher power" who knows no religion is more likely to exist than a God who supposedly bends the laws of science. Get real.

[Aquila]

I had read an interesting interpretation of Genesis. Essentially it proposed that God did speak during a literal six day period. However, the results of his words weren’t seen until billions of years later. That would mean that our entire world, no matter how old was the result of God’s creative words spoken during a week’s time. It would read like this,

Genesis 1:1-31
{1:1} In the beginning God created the heaven and the
earth. {1:2} And the earth was without form, and void; and
darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of
God moved upon the face of the waters.
{1:3} And God said, Let there be light: and there was
light.

({1:4} And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and
God divided the light from the darkness. {1:5} And God
called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.)

And the evening and the morning were the first day.
{1:6} And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst
of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

({1:7} And God made the firmament, and divided the waters
which [were] under the firmament from the waters which
[were] above the firmament: and it was so. {1:8} And God
called the firmament Heaven.

And the evening and the morning were the second day.
{1:9} And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be
gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land]
appear: and it was so.

{1:10} And God called the dry [land]
Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he
Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.

{1:11} And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and]
the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in
itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

{1:12} And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind,
and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after
his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

{1:13} And the
evening and the morning were the third day.
{1:14} And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament
of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them
be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
{1:15} And let them be for lights in the firmament of the
heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

{1:16} And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the
day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars
also. {1:17} And God set them in the firmament of the
heaven to give light upon the earth, {1:18} And to rule over
the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the
darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.

{1:19} And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. {1:20} And
God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving
creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the
earth in the open firmament of heaven.

{1:21} And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth,
which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind,
and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it
was] good. {1:22} And God blessed them, saying, Be
fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let
fowl multiply in the earth.

{1:23} And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
{1:24} And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living
creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast
of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

{1:25} And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after
their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after
his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

{1:26} And God said, Let us make man in our image,
after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish
of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,
and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
creepeth upon the earth.

{1:27} So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and
female created he them. {1:28} And God blessed them, and
God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish
the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of
the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living
thing that moveth upon the earth.

{1:29} And God said, Behold, I have given you every
herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth,
and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding
seed; to you it shall be for meat. {1:30} And to every beast
of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing
that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have
given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.

{1:31} And
God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was]
very good.

And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

I found this interpretation interesting.