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Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other.


View Poll Results: Do you believe and/or teach that standards are heaven or hell issues?
Absolutely. I believe and teach that standards are heaven or hell issues. 11 19.30%
I believe that standards should be followed, but they do not necessarily affect salvation. 10 17.54%
I do not believe standards are salvational, but I teach them in compliance with the organization. 3 5.26%
I do not believe or teach that standards are salvational. 21 36.84%
I teach that standards are matters of consecration, but are not salvational. 11 19.30%
I don't know. 1 1.75%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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  #361  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:20 PM
BrotherEastman's Avatar
BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
uncharismatic conservative maverick


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michlow View Post
I've read this post several times and all I can do is shake my head and sigh.

Bro. Price, this kind of post may earn you pats on the back from some of the most hardcore ultra-cons, but it will accomplish little in convincing any of us "liberals" of the error of our ways.

Do you understand that based solely on your post that most would believe that holiness = hatred? That being a holy person means being cruel and judgemental and harsh and rude?

I am in no way denying your right to your own personal convictions. If you believe that taking a hard stance on standards brings you closer to God, well then that is between you and Him.

But I ask you the following questions honestly and sincerely:

1. When reading what you wrote above, do you think that you are acting in love as described in 1 cor. 13?

2. Would you say that you are "speaking the truth in love" as per Eph 4:15? (see again 1 cor. 13)

3. Are you guilty of judging another man's servant as per Rom 14:4?

4. Are you completely without sin that you are able to cast the first stone as per John 8:7?

5. Are you following the admonishment to judge not lest ye be judged as per Matt 7:1? Do you understand this? With the same measure that you judge others you yourself with be judged. Based on your post above, you will be judged with no mercy and no love. You will not be forgiven the smallest mistake, because you do not forgive it in others.

The truth is Bro. Price, that if you really believe that we are so horribly wrong and deceived and on our way to hell, then you should be on your knees crying for us. Not looking on us in your own smug self-righteouesness, and saying to yourself "Lord, I thank you that I am not like other men, television watchers, standards' breakers, and charismatics, or even like Coop over there" (Luke 18:11 paraphrased)

You pride yourself on keeping all the rules, yet you are forgetting the second greatest commandment, to love your neighbor as yourself. 1 John is filled with scriptures that talk of how Jesus commanded us to love one another, and that we show that we love Him by loving one another. It even says:

1 John 3:14-15

14We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.

Bro. Price, I am not even for a second suggesting that you lesson your personal convictions if they are truly given to you of God. But please remember that if you have not love, you have nothing.
Holiness=Hatred? Really? I'm sorry you feel that way, but it isn't true. I'll agree that it comes off that way at times, but if one is holy, one isn't just holy on the outside.
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  #362  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:21 PM
Michlow Michlow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
Holiness=Hatred? Really? I'm sorry you feel that way, but it isn't true. I'll agree that it comes off that way at times, but if one is holy, one isn't just holy on the outside.
So you believe that Bro. Price's post was a loving response from one who is Holy to one who is by his opinion, not holy?
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  #363  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:27 PM
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BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
uncharismatic conservative maverick


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michlow View Post
So you believe that Bro. Price's post was a loving response from one who is Holy to one who is by his opinion, not holy?
While I appreciate Bro. Price's stand on holiness, I think that both liberals and conservatives can come off as hateful, though they do not necessarily mean to. I'm not sure of Bro. Price's intentions, nor do I know his heart, he does seem to be somewhat zealous. This does not make him a bad person. I honestly do not think that you are a bad person either, we just have disagreements.
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  #364  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:29 PM
HeavenlyOne HeavenlyOne is offline
Lofty, Scientific, and Literal


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
While I appreciate Bro. Price's stand on holiness, I think that both liberals and conservatives can come off as hateful, though they do not necessarily mean to. I'm not sure of Bro. Price's intentions, nor do I know his heart, he does seem to be somewhat zealous. This does not make him a bad person. I honestly do not think that you are a bad person either, we just have disagreements.
He's zealous no matter what he believes! LOL! Gotta give him that.

Today, it's standards. Tomorrow, it's the trinity.
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  #365  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:31 PM
Michlow Michlow is offline
just lurking...


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
While I appreciate Bro. Price's stand on holiness, I think that both liberals and conservatives can come off as hateful, though they do not necessarily mean to. I'm not sure of Bro. Price's intentions, nor do I know his heart, he does seem to be somewhat zealous. This does not make him a bad person. I honestly do not think that you are a bad person either, we just have disagreements.
I wasn't trying to paint him as a bad person. Actually my only intent was to realize that sometimes how we portray ourselves is more important then what we even say. My post really had nothing to do with the fact that Bro. Price is very conservative. I would have written the same post to a liberal or a moderate, if I thought they were getting so caught up in proving themselves right that they forgot that people are not the enemy.
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  #366  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:33 PM
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BrotherEastman BrotherEastman is offline
uncharismatic conservative maverick


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5,356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michlow View Post
I wasn't trying to paint him as a bad person. Actually my only intent was to realize that sometimes how we portray ourselves is more important then what we even say. My post really had nothing to do with the fact that Bro. Price is very conservative. I would have written the same post to a liberal or a moderate, if I thought they were getting so caught up in proving themselves right that they forgot that people are not the enemy.
Too which I'm guilty for trying to prove that I'm right all to often.
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  #367  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:35 PM
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COOPER COOPER is offline
Hello AFF!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amarillo, Tx.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne View Post
He's zealous no matter what he believes! LOL! Gotta give him that.

Today, it's standards. Tomorrow, it's the trinity.
Price is just a big Teddy Bear of Holiness love.. I just want to greet him with a Holy Kiss!! He's my bro!
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  #368  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:39 PM
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COOPER COOPER is offline
Hello AFF!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amarillo, Tx.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michlow View Post
I wasn't trying to paint him as a bad person. .
Mich your Avitar is ..........well ............you know...
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  #369  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:39 PM
Michlow Michlow is offline
just lurking...


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherEastman View Post
Too which I'm guilty for trying to prove that I'm right all to often.
As am I! Too often we get so caught up in the debate that we forget that the person on the other end of the issue is not our enemy! We only have one enemy and it is never ever other people. Even when the enemy is USING those other people we need to remember that they are not the enemy.

Just like us they are a child of God, and he loves them just as much as he loves us, and he died for them just as much as he died for us, and he wants them to be saved as much as he wants us to be saved.

This is something that God has really been speaking to me about lately. It all started when I reading 1 John. There is so much about Jesus' command for us to love one another, and how we love HIM when we obey His command. Then inspired I have repeatedly turned to 1 cor 13 and read it over and over again. I was really convicted by the beginning how it talks about all the other stuff we can do, but without love it's completely nothing.

And then talking about all the stuff love is and isn't.

Not easily angered? (I have a short fuse)

Keeps no record of wrongs? (Ha! Ask my husband about that one )

Every single word in that chapter convicts me. So lately, when I have the urge to get upset with someone, or come down on them for what I think they are doing wrong, I read that chapter and remember how much I fall short.
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  #370  
Old 04-25-2007, 03:41 PM
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nathan_slatter nathan_slatter is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michlow View Post
Too often we get so caught up in the debate that we forget that the person on the other end of the issue is not our enemy!
Which is why I will rarely debate.
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