Obey Them that Rule???

Originally Posted by tbpew

Who has God placed over the members of his own body besides our Lord Jesus?

Those who, according to the scripture, "have the rule over you."

Does God's body have multiple, or in some sort of corporate format, hierarchal delegated headships?

There is what is often called "the five-fold ministry" (that exercise different kinds of "leadership," it doesn't mean all of them have the same kind of leadership role in the Church) and there are elders.

If my own body functions perfectly with one head governing many members, why would God's own body need multiple heads to affect its operation?

By asking this question, you deny the clear command of scripture "obey THEM that have the rule over you." Christ is not a them.

I believe that tabernacle of God is no longer a building, but rather, is now a body.

But the New Testament describes the Church (and, to an extent, Christians individually) as not only a body (the Church as Christ's body and Christians as body parts) but also as God's building.

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Or they could be operating in the ministry of Ham ....

Thanks Dan... I just spewed coffee all over my laptop

[tbpew]

In whatever manner we construct a NT witness that establishes RULERS within the body of Christ, rather than the operation of giftings in the form of bondservants of our Lord, we have begun to sew the veil that was rent from top to bottom.

The rule of men, other than (or in addition to) Jesus Christ our Lord, among the members of God's anointed body is anti-God's governance throughout the diversity of his own body.

If the greatest among us are to be servants to all, how have servants become masters of their own master's servants?

No man can have two masters.

Originally Posted by tbpew

In whatever manner we construct a NT witness that establishes RULERS within the body of Christ, rather than the operation of giftings in the form of bondservants of our Lord, we have begun to sow the veil that was rent from top to bottom.

The rule of men, other than (or in addition to) Jesus Christ our Lord, among the members of God's anointed body is anti-God's governance throughout the diversity of his own body.

If the greatest among us are to be servants to all, how have servants become masters of their own master's servants?

No man can have two masters.

As usual, excellent post.

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by Subdued

H1, I wrote my post to whomever wanted to read/listen. And, believe me, if I can apply it to MY life, I have no doubt that ANYONE can! I was the most "unfixable" person I know! You know where I was a year ago!! You know where I was six months ago! I was destroying my life. I was convinced that God was able to help people, but that I was broken beyond repair for even Him. I also thought that the day would never come where I could fully trust Jesus. I didn't think it was possible - really.

I spoke the words I was supposed to speak, saying that I believed Jesus could help me; however, in my heart, I just couldn't see how. Like I said, it was head-knowledge, not heart-knowledge. Then one day I realized that I was on the other side! I felt like I had finally crossed over a raging river - I'm no longer IN the river, being swept away, hitting my head, being knocked around, bleeding, wounded... I'm OUT! And it's all BEHIND me... I'm not facing it anymore, I'm facing JESUS! It's so awesome! HE'S so awesome!

Hang in there, H1. As I said, if it can happen for ME, it can happen for ANYONE! I am finally a believer in that.

Love ya!

I know this may some strange to some but the best place to be sometimes is at your weakest where no one but God can help. That's where God really proves Himself and you have no choice but to hang onto Him or die. Brothers and Sisters in the Lord, family, pastors are great but there comes a time when you are on your own with just you and God. The glory of God really shines through those who are weak in themselves and rely on Him.

We had a pastor stay with us for a couple of years. His wife had left him and he was totally devastated. He'd sit at the breakfast table each morning with his head hug low and tears running down his face. The board had decided that he had to turn in his licence and people were getting tired of him talking about his problems. He needed time and God to work things out. he was raised in the church and thought he had faith in God but he really hadn't been in a real trial before. He came out of it stronger than before. he saw what things are really important and what things are only crutches and not real. People have remarked now that he has an annointing on his prayers when he is asked to pray in church.

Originally Posted by tbpew

In whatever manner we construct a NT witness that establishes RULERS within the body of Christ, rather than the operation of giftings in the form of bondservants of our Lord, we have begun to sow the veil that was rent from top to bottom.

How does one sow (meaning to plant seed) the veil that was torn from top to bottom?

The rule of men, other than (or in addition to) Jesus Christ our Lord, among the members of God's anointed body is anti-God's governance throughout the diversity of his own body.

Whenever Paul planted churches, he appointed elders (more than one) in each church. Those elders exercised authority in the Church, they ruled in the Church under the direction of the Holy Ghost.

If the greatest among us are to be servants to all, how have servants become masters of their own master's servants?

In taking the passage out of context (the passage where Jesus said he who would be great among you, let him be your servant), you deny not only Paul's appointing of elders but also the leadership role exercised by the apostles and elders in the Jerusalem church, and you deny the scripture that says "obey them that have the rule over you."

No man can have two masters.

Just because elders have the rule over us doesn't make them our masters.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Chan

How does one sow (meaning to plant seed) the veil that was torn from top to bottom?
Hooray for Chan!, Your apparent core purpose for db posting has a few more key strokes added to it! Yippee! Great job! whoo hoo!

Whenever Paul planted churches, he appointed elders (more than one) in each church. Those elders exercised authority in the Church, they ruled in the Church under the direction of the Holy Ghost.

In taking the passage out of context (the passage where Jesus said he who would be great among you, let him be your servant), you deny not only Paul's appointing of elders but also the leadership role exercised by the apostles and elders in the Jerusalem church, and you deny the scripture that says "obey them that have the rule over you."

Just because elders have the rule over us doesn't make them our masters.

Chan,
I am thrilled to be in complele disagreement with your view of a multi-headed body of Christ.

Originally Posted by tbpew

Chan,
I am thrilled to be in complele disagreement with your view of a multi-headed body of Christ.

The Body of Christ is a hydra?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Joelel

I use to go to church all the time for a good many years. I try to go back every now and then but can't stand the un- holy living and preaching of lies.

2 Thes.3:14: And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

1 Cor.5:9: I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:10: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.11: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

12: For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?13: But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person

I know what you mean! Doesn't it get aggravating going to church with all of those fallible human beings?

I think you should hold out to find a church of pefect people (like yourself I am sure).

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by CC1

I know what you mean! Doesn't it get aggravating going to church with all of those fallible human beings?

I think you should hold out to find a church of pefect people (like yourself I am sure).

Our son, who evangelizes in California, said, "I'd rather go to church with a few hypocrites then live in hell with a whole lot of them."