The catching away

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Lafon

"Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight."

Does not this tell us that a period of 2,000 years must pass before God will "raise us up" - that is to say, resurrect us from the dead - after which "we shall live in his sight"? Please bear in mind that while one cannot know the hour, or even the day, week, month of His coming again, it is possible to be aware of the particular era of time when this event will take place. I should also point out that the apostle Peter has written to inform us that "...beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

I do not believe we can take that passage and dogmatically say it is teaching 2,000 years must pass before the Lord comes. Peter said a day with the Lord is as a thousand years. But he did not mean to take every instance of a day and realize it is actually one thousand years. He simply meant that whether God 's promises come to pass a day after they are promised, or one thousand years after they are promised, time does not effect how valid God's promises are.

By the way, after two days is meant to be synonymous with the third day, because the third day occurs after the second, and the third day means any time during the third day.

Some feel this passage deals with revival in the church, not rapture.

There must be clear teaching in the New Testament that actually says Christ shall rapture the church after 2,000 years before we can say there is a message in the form of a type in the Old Testament about such a thing.

No offence intended, but it is abuse of typology to claim an old testament type says something the new testament never explicitly taught. Something must be spelled out for us plainly in the New Testament before we take a type or shadow in the Old and claim it means such a something.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by easter

Now how am I suppose to believe that?
1 thessalonians 4:13-17
Now according to these scriptures this of course is the Rapture(for those who believe the catching away) and the resurrection.
Does this mean WE"VE BEEN LEFT BEHIND?

I agree with you that this idea is wrong. But their point is that souls slept until AD70 in the graves. When AD70 hit, there was an invisible resurrection of those sleeping saints, and now since then, everyone who dies in the Lord does not sleep but gets their own personal resurrection immediately upon death, and go in their invisible spiritual bodies to be with the Lord.

This means there is no resurrection at one and the same moment ever again for the saints. It teaches that the resurrection of 1 Cor 15 was at AD70. That is part of Full preterism. This is how full preterists and partial preterists differ, me being partial preterist. They say each of us get our resurrection as soon as we die.

[easter]

Originally Posted by Lafon

For one to assert/suggest that "The Apostles only thought they were living in the last days," represents a failure (IMHO) to "rightly divide the word of truth." Did not the apostles use the "scriptures" - the writings of the Old Testament - as the basis for that which they proclaimed as truth? Of course! Let us examine an important passage from the inspired writings of the prophets of old in an effort to determine the merits of statements which infer/imply that the apostles, as well as the members of the early first century apostolic churches, held to a belief that they were "living in the last days."

Hosea 6:1-2 discloses the following important information for us regarding the "timing" for our Lord's return: (King James Version)

"Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight."

Does not this tell us that a period of 2,000 years must pass before God will "raise us up" - that is to say, resurrect us from the dead - after which "we shall live in his sight"? Please bear in mind that while one cannot know the hour, or even the day, week, month of His coming again, it is possible to be aware of the particular era of time when this event will take place. I should also point out that the apostle Peter has written to inform us that "...beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2 Peter 3:8)

I believe this

[mfblume]

Actually I think Hosea 6:1-2 is prophesying nothing about the rapture, but about salvation WE experience because CHRIST literally died and on the third day resurrected.

He revived US on the third day when Christ resurrected:

Romans 6:13 KJV Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 6:5 KJV For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: (SPIRITUAL rsurrection in salvation so we are alive from the dead in Christ)

Colossians 3:1 KJV If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Ephesians 2:1 KJV And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

[easter]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree with you this idea is wrong. But their point is that souls slept until AD70 in the graves. When AD70 hit, there was an invisible resurrection of those sleeping saints, and now since then, everyone who dies in the Lord does not sleep but gets their own personal resurrection immediately upon death, and go in their invisible spiritual bodies to be with the Lord.

This means there is no resurrection at one and the same moment ever again for the saints. It teaches that the resurrection of 1 Cor 15 was at AD70. That is part of Full preterism. This is how full preterists and partial preterists differ, me being partial preterist.

I don't see this in scripture.
I see this in scripture
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.
Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection and went into the Holy City and appeared unto many.(KJV)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins the just and for the unjust,that he might bring us to God,being put to death in the flesh,but quickened by the Spirit.
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
1 Peter 3:20 Which sometimes were disobedient,when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah,while the ark was a preparing,wherein few.that is eight souls were saved by water.(KJV)

Hey these scripture here not only show that the spirits that were in the heart of the earth(saints) was raised out when Jesus died on the cross and took the keys of death and hell,meaning according to scripture the dead saints and everyone after the cross,the spirit returns to God,not 70 AD but at the crucifixion and resurrection of our Lord.
The other part of this scripture explains why the Lord is tarrying after all this time,he is long suffering and just as in the days of Noah,God is waiting as the Spirit and the Bride are preparing so that all might be saved.For the Lord does not want any to die and go to Hell.
Makes since to me.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by easter

I don't see this in scripture.
I see this in scripture
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.
Matthew 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection and went into the Holy City and appeared unto many.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins the just and for the unjust,that he might bring us to God,being put to death in the flesh,but quickened by the Spirit.
1 Peter 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
1 peter 3:20 Which sometimes were disobedient,when once the long suffering of God waited in the days of Noah,while the ark was a preparing,wherein few.that is eight souls were saved by water.

Hey these scripture here not only show that the spirits that were in the heart of the earth(saints) was raised out when Jesus died on the cross and took the keys of death and hell,meaning according to scripture the dead saints and everyone after the cross,the spirit returns to God,not 70 AD but at the crux fixation and resurrection of our Lord.

It could be, but I am not sure. I say this because I take Peter's words to not be about anyone in the grave whom Jesus preached to while they were in prison. I think it really is speaking about Noah's day, when the Spirit of Christ was upon Noah to preach to the souls then who ARE NOW in prison.

The other part of this scripture explains why the Lord is tarrying after all this time,he is long suffering and just as in the days of Noah,God is waiting as the Spirit and the Bride are preparing so that all might be saved.For the Lord does not want any to die and go to Hell.
Makes since to me.

I agree no souls resurrected in AD70, but I cannot see Peter's words fitting the resurrection of saints when Jesus died. I always admit I may be wrong, though.

[easter]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Actually I think Hosea 6:1-2 is prophesying nothing about the rapture, but about salvation WE experience because CHRIST literally died and on the third day resurrected.

He revived US on the third day when Christ resurrected:

Romans 6:13 KJV Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 6:5 KJV For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: (SPIRITUAL rsurrection in salvation so we are alive from the dead in Christ)

Colossians 3:1 KJV If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

Ephesians 2:1 KJV And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Bro.Blume I believe Lafon was speaking of the raising of our Glorified Bodies,not our spirits.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by easter

Bro.Blume I believe Lafon was speaking of the raising of our Glorified Bodies,not our spirits.

Yes, I know.

I was simply saying I disagree with him about this. I am saying it could be one of many things. But since the New Testament does not say we shall be raptured after 2000 years, but IT DOES say we are spiritually revived with Christ when He arose the third day, I believe it is our spirits prophesied. I say this because we have to have a plainly written statement in the New testament that interprets the prophecy we take from the old. And I do not mean something like a reference to a thousand years being one day in Peter. Peter did not mean for us to consider a reference to one day as being a thousand years every time we read about a day in prophecy. Sometimes one day mean ONE YEAR!

That's why I said:

He (Peter) simply meant that whether God 's promises come to pass a day after they are promised, or one thousand years after they are promised, time does not effect how valid God's promises are.

http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/sho...&postcount=351

[easter]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It could be, but I am not sure. I say this because I take Peter's words to not be about anyone in the grave whom Jesus preached to while they were in prison. I think it really is speaking about Noah's day, when the Spirit of Christ was upon Noah to preach to the souls then who ARE NOW in prison.



I agree no souls resurrected in AD70, but I cannot see Peter's words fitting the resurrection of saints when Jesus died. I always admit I may be wrong, though.

Nor do I believe the resurrection took place at the time of the cross but I do believe the Spirits that were held in the heart of the earth was taken into paradise by the Lord himself, the spirits only not glorified bodies yet.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by easter

Nor do I believe the resurrection took place at the time of the cross but I do believe the Spirits that were held in the heart of the earth was taken into paradise by the Lord himself, the spirits only not glorified bodies yet.

I agree. But why do you think the saints which resurrected with Jesus were SEEN, though? We cannot see spirits.