Isaiah 3 and jewelry... - Page 36

rdp · #**351** 07-16-2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

No need -- no use -- to try when dealing with those whose traditions mean more than overall context of the bible.

The "overall context" regarding literal ornamentation is a hearty "NO" from God.

How come you are not answering why God would hate jewelry and yet use it in indicating his pure and holy love? You are making things up, dude.

So, I quote Scripture after Scripture, explain ad nauseum the visual beauty of jewelry as a proper representative of God's beutiful Mercy...yet, I'm "not answering" & "making things up"??? Hello...are you home?

You are ignoring the fact that Peter and Paul are not saying do not use jewelry, but rather do not make it YOUR ADORNMENT -- WORLD - KOSMOS. Did you read that in Greek?

And you're wresting the Scriptues to your own destruction, making the Word of God of no affect. For it says exactly the opposite of what you assert above...it literally says, "N-O-T- with gold, pearls,...". Good grief...this is nuts!

rdp · #**352** 07-16-2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Remminds me of a story my pastor growing up used to tell. There was a preacher that has a sister in his church that always wore her hair in a tight knot on the top of her head. One Sunday the preacher took two passages of scripture. One said something about a top knot, the other had come down in the verse. The preacher took the two phrases "top knot, come down" and preached against hair in a tight bun on top of the head.

Difference is that I have them all in the same verse & context! "Not with gold, pearls, or costly array." Couldn't be plainer!

rdp · #**353** 07-16-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

The Jewelry subject is like the por-tithe subject, alot of scriptures ignored or dismissed.

Couldn't agree more!

mfblume · #**354** 07-16-2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp

And you're wresting the Scriptues to your own destruction, making the Word of God of no affect. For it says exactly the opposite of what you assert above...it literally says, "N-O-T- with gold, pearls,...". Good grief...this is nuts!

Enough with the childish rant, rdp. Talk civilly for goodness's sake. Your attitude makes it hard for anyone to hear you.

What were your words about not wearing of apparel? The argument against you has been that if you say not the wearing of gold means never any gold, then not the wearing of apparel means never wearing any clothes. What was it you said about that if you did?

mfblume · #**355** 07-16-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp

"LOL" indeed! While you're on "abominations," did God call the [key word here Mike, watch closely] LITERAL wearing of silver & gold "abomination" to Him? Need some help? Y-E-S [Deut. 7:25]. God instructs His people upon entering into the promised land, "Do not desire the silver, or gold upon them, nor take it unto yourselves....". Yea', God reeeeeeally "approves" the literal wearing of silver & gold by His people eh' Mike!?!? Sheesh!

There's that pentecostal cussword, "sheesh" again, which is a distortion of the name Jesus.

Again, getting past the childish tripe, God was speaking about taking the adornments of the idols and WORSHIPING THEM. These items were not just jewelry. They were jewelry on IDOLS. They would be tempted to worship the items. Context context context.

Quote:

And anything to make the Word of God fit your worldly lifestyle eh' Mike? Ughh, the Word is exactly why we don't wear jewelry.

It has nothing to do with my lifestyle. I dropped the standards when I realize Ezek 16 shows God doing something that would be ridiculous for Him to tell us not to do, and when I saw Peter as not saying do not wear gold, but rather do not make it your priority and do not get caught up in it. It had nothing to do with my lifestyle because my lifestyle had been what yours is, and I realized scripture did not support it. Now, can you talk without the childish expletives?

Sam · #**356** 07-16-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Remminds me of a story my pastor growing up used to tell. There was a preacher that has a sister in his church that always wore her hair in a tight knot on the top of her head. One Sunday the preacher took two passages of scripture. One said something about a top knot, the other had come down in the verse. The preacher took the two phrases "top knot, come down" and preached against hair in a tight bun on top of the head.

Matthew 24:17, and these verses are words of Jesus and are in red in some Bibles which gives them more value than the black print:

"Let him which is on the houseTOP NOT COME DOWN to take any thing out of his house"

As someone has said, a text taken from its context can be just a pretext.

Jeffrey · #**357** 07-16-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp

Difference is that I have them all in the same verse & context! "Not with gold, pearls, or costly array." Couldn't be plainer!

Please don't ever claim to have taken a hermeneutic class ever again. Thank you.

rdp · #**358** 07-16-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Enough with the childish rant, rdp. Talk civilly for goodness's sake. Your attitude makes it hard for anyone to hear you.

I suppose that your telling me that I'm a typical "legalist/pharisee" is "mature" eh' Mike. What you require of me you yourself do not practice.

What were your words about not wearing of apparel? The argument against you has been that if you say not the wearing of gold means never any gold, then not the wearing of apparel means never wearing any clothes. What was it you said about that if you did?

The Greek text literally states "....apparell ADORNING." In other words, just as the NIV translation affirms [as well as others, but pressed for time], the apparell in I Ptr. 3 was referring to the ostentatious clothing. Or do you reeeeeally believe that God was telling folks not to wear clothes?? You equivocate on gold & apparell, which is a logical fallacy [no matter how Jeffrey may deride it!]. We have to take each article mentioned based upon its own merit. Greek text still says, "Not...the wearing of gold, or apparell adorning." Case closed if we allow the text to simply speak for itself.

Out of pocket for a few days.....rdp.

Jeffrey · #**359** 07-16-2010, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdp

The Greek text literally states "....apparell ADORNING." In other words, just as the NIV translation affirms [as well as others, but pressed for time], the apparell in I Ptr. 3 was referring to the ostentatious clothing. Or do you reeeeeally believe that God was telling folks not to wear clothes?? You equivocate on gold & apparell, which is a logical fallacy [no matter how Jeffrey may deride it!]. We have to take each article mentioned based upon its own merit. Greek text still says, "Not...the wearing of gold, or apparell adorning." Case closed if we allow the text to simply speak for itself.

Out of pocket for a few days.....rdp.

Yeah, it says "not with gold" so no need to bother with context. Pesky little details those things.

I've never argued that Paul suggested people going naked, nor has Blume from what I read, but rather Paul is suggesting ...

Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight.

Notice what he suggests rather than gold and clothes.... notice it. Keep noticing it.

Like I said, you have NO business whatsoever claiming any knowledge of hermeneutics. It's gross how you treat the text. The PLAIN "meaning" of a Text is only as meaningful as its context. Way to rape Paul's words though.

rdp · #**360** 07-16-2010, 02:22 PM

Again, getting past the childish tripe, God was speaking about taking the adornments of the idols and WORSHIPING THEM. These items were not just jewelry. They were jewelry on IDOLS. They would be tempted to worship the items. Context context context.

Perhaps you should take some courses in grammar Mike. You seem woefully lacking, as demonstrated above. The "them" grammatically modifies the "their" in beginning portion of the verse. "Thou shalt not desire the silver or gold on THEM..." was stated after He commanded them to destroy the idols! The gold & silver was on those not in circumcision covenant w/ him...just as the gold & silver is on those not water & Spirit baptized today. "Learn not the way of the heathen...".

Look, Mike, I honestly don't have time to waste w/ this non-sense. Repent & obey the Word of God that it may be well w/ your soul....seriously......I'm not your enemy, but I do call false teaching when I see it.

It has nothing to do with my lifestyle. I dropped the standards when I realize Ezek 16 shows God doing something that would be ridiculous for Him to tell us not to do, and when I saw Peter as not saying do not wear gold, but rather do not make it your priority and do not get caught up in it. It had nothing to do with my lifestyle because my lifestyle had been what yours is, and I realized scripture did not support it. Now, can you talk without the childish expletives?[/QUOTE]

Problem is Peter says no such thing, that is supplied by Mike's presuppositions...not the text. Now, I'm more than happy to interact w/ you guys on a scholastical level w/out all of the ad hominem's, but you seem to forget that this works both ways!