Water baptism, can you agree with this statement?

[SDG]

Jesus Christ .... The Plan of Salvation for NT and OT saints.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Well that settles it ... I'm one too.

Be nice Dan.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Well that settles it ... I'm one too.

GLORY!!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Caston Smith

GLORY!!

He's got you Dan. Give it up!

[Adino]

Mizpeh said:

Shall I link verses that show water and Spirit are part of the regeneration

Mizpeh, we certainly agree the Spirit is the quickening power of the new birth, but I would like to see any passage which connects baptism to the new birth. I know this might not be the thread to do this, but feel free to private message me your support text. There is, to my knowledge, no other Scripture which speaks of water baptism in the new birth context.

Even if John 3:5 is ultimately decided by someone to be a reference to water baptism this still does not mean it is part of the new birth (I would point to Adam Clarke for such a position - in fact Adam Clarke is the support Haywood used for his connection of John 3:5 to baptism - yet the point is thoroughly made in Clarke's commentary that "Spirit" new birth is the intended focus by Christ). There is no Scripture which teaches water baptism as part of the new birth experience.

Please PM me your support.... thanks.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Adino

Mizpeh said:Mizpeh, we certainly agree the Spirit is the quickening power of the new birth, but I would like to see any passage which connects baptism to the new birth. I know this might not be the thread to do this, but feel free to private message me your support text. There is, to my knowledge, no other Scripture which speaks of water baptism in the new birth context.

Even if John 3:5 is ultimately decided by someone to be a reference to water baptism this still does not mean it is part of the new birth (I would point to Adam Clarke for such a position - in fact Adam Clarke is the support Haywood used for his connection of John 3:5 to baptism - yet the point is thoroughly made in Clarke's commentary that "Spirit" new birth is the intended focus by Christ). There is no Scripture which teaches water baptism as part of the new birth experience.

Please PM me your support.... thanks.

Adino,

A couple of questions first. Would you consider the new birth of believers to be the same as regeneration?

Do you believe 'water and Spirit' mean the same thing? A type of repetition or parallelism to stress the same point? I'm reading through Adam Clarke's commentary on John 3:5 and I agree in principle with his first paragraph. I have some reservations concerning his second paragraph which sounds very much like what a seminary student told me that he believed. "Therefore, our Lord asserts that a man must be born of water and the Spirit, i.e. of the Holy Ghost, which, represented under the similitude of water, cleanses, refreshes, and purifies the soul." Clarke

If this phrase is to be taken as an ellipsis or as elliptical form of speech I would think it would be worded "of the Spirt and of water" much like Clarke demonstrated with the phrase "Holy Ghost and fire".

[Neck]

Originally Posted by tbpew

A statement was provided as a concluding sentence in a post offered by Adino in another thread.

I do not take [water] baptism "out of the equation" for proper Christian behavior. I do take it "out of the equation" for salvation before God.

It seemed like such a good basis to get understanding about the folks that post here so I wanted to create an OPEN poll that simply asks you,

YES or NO; does this statement represent your understanding about the scriptural witness pertaining to water baptism?

It is an open poll, meaning people can see the poster's name when viewing the poll results, but afterall, water baptism is so often a topic among us most of us have answered this same thing many times in many ways. So why not consider one more time....go ahead and vote...its your RIGHT!

If you would have to provide a caveat or modify, your answer would be NO.

If it can stand as written, your answer would be YES.

Here is some feedback offered from within the thread where Adino provided this statement that I am using as what you are voting on in this poll:

I know this the PCI part of the UPCI merger did not hold it as essential.

The PA of JC crowd did.

Howard Goss did not (First Sup of the UPCI)

[Brother Price]

Is water baptism essential for salvation? I say yes. I believe wholly that the message of salvation is repeated throughout the pages of scripture, water baptism being an integrated part of the process.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Is water baptism essential for salvation? I say yes. I believe wholly that the message of salvation is repeated throughout the pages of scripture, water baptism being an integrated part of the process.

Dear BP;

The old covenant required sacrifices of all kinds. A specific sin required a specific sacrifice. All old covenant sacrifices were "weak" or insufficient for the removal of sin. A new sin required a new sacrifice.

The ceremony of baptism under the old covenant required continual cleansing. Somewhat of a religious bath. If you were unclean, you needed a new bath. These baths were "mitzvahs" and are still visible under many ruins in Jerusalem and throughout the region.

When Jesus died, he was the perfect sacrifice and forever perfected them which are sanctified. He became the final and complete sacrifice. I know you know this, but here is the difference.

If baptism could save you, you wouldn't need the cross. If your analogy is correct, and baptism does "wash or remit sin", then what happens the next time a person sins? Yep, they would need to be re baptized. Well, then we are back under the law and might as well institute circumcision, and everything else.

Baptism is a sign of a committed heart to Jesus Christ and identifies with His sacrifice for us. It's what we do for Him, because of what he did for us. Acts 2:38..."For the remission of sin", Or For the sake of the Cross.

[Brother Price]

staysharp, baptism is something based solely on the sacrifice of Christ. It is not a work of man, but is something instituted by the Lord, for the salvation of the soul. Baptism does not negate the Cross, but it is where the covenant recipient and the Mediator meet.